Sarah
So welcome, Richard. It’s great to have you today chatting about your career and CouriersPlease. And I just wanted to start out that as an outsider, I think the career business perhaps doesn’t seem the most exciting place to build a career. It’s not particularly sexy. And you spent 13 years in what was originally Fastway Careers and that became Aramex, the global brand.

You’re now at CouriersPlease. So tell me, what is it about the industry that you love?

Richard Thame
Thanks, Sarah. It’s great to be here. Well, that’s a great question. And the industry has changed enormously since I joined it, as you pointed out a long time ago now. And I guess I describe it as going from a box moving business, which was fundamentally a business to business operation, which was really necessary in those days. So was picking up generally a small group of parcels from one business and dropping them off at another.

Richard Thame
What really changed and getting to your point about what makes it sex, in inverted commas, is the explosion in online retail and people buying online. And that really started in about 2011 or 2012. And I guess myself and my colleagues at the time kind of looked at it and said, wow, things are changing. I joined the Fastway business at the time in 2008. And that was one of our more recent global financial crises, before well before Covid of course. And it was interesting at the time I thought what on earth have I done? And what a really tough economy at that stage did for the industry was force us to look and say, people aren’t moving as many full pallet loads and full truck loads anymore. So it gave a relatively small business like ours an opportunity to get on the radar with some bigger businesses. And at the same time, it really forced us to do what franchise systems do best, which is be entrepreneurial, innovative, and think outside the box about what they can do to survive in tough times.

And we knew that there was something in this online retail trend. We just didn’t know what it was. And the interesting thing at the time was that we sat around and said, okay, we need to be part of this kind of online retail thing. The only trouble is we don’t know anything about it. What we quickly discovered was that nobody else did either. So we did what all good kind of students who the economy did, we went and enrolled in as many courses, conferences and events.

And of course we’d go to those events and not know anybody and go and have a drink at the bar later and think, goodness, is this the right thing to do? Fast forward 10 years and you go to some of those big online retail events. And I’m pleased to say that I bump into a lot of longstanding customers there. So I guess in a nutshell, we went on the journey with our customers.

You know, is that in itself sexy or exciting? Not particularly, but what has been sexy and exciting is getting to know and understand a whole bunch of startup businesses that literally didn’t exist 13 years ago and have become part of our daily lives now and watch the way that consumers have changed their expectations as well. So 10 or 12 years ago, you’d go to a dinner party, people would talk about the price of properties and schools and all of those exciting things that people talk about. You go to a backyard barbecue or a dinner party now and people are talking about what they’ve bought on Amazon or Temu or one of the other online platforms as well. What’s been exciting and sexy about it is that we’ve had a front row seat watching the way that Australian retailers have responded to what is now a level of global competition that none of them could have anticipated 10 or 20 years ago.

And the type of people that we’re employing and we’re asking to come and work for us and the people that we’re encouraging to buy a franchise in our system now are people that want to be part of an online retail economy. So that is sexy and exciting because it’s fast moving, it’s changing, it’s full of challenges. So whereas, you know, for the first 20 years of our existence at Courier Please and CouriersPlease has been around for 41 years, the first half of that life cycle would have been all about doing the same thing on a regular basis and people would have valued that level of consistency and discipline.

And while that’s still really important, what we’re really tracking for with people that we bring into our system now is a level of entrepreneurial thinking, innovation. And the big change in the business has been the impact of technology, which is obviously a flow on effect from the way that people buy stuff online now.

Sarah
So I mean, picking up there on the technology side, I know that you’ve invested quite heavily in technology and sustainability, or CouriersPleas, has kind of over the years. you’ve had a plan, a project to open three mega depots. I think all three are open now, I think.

Richard
Yeah, we’ve ticked the box on all three. It’s been a really big year. We’ve ticked the box on all three of those. during, you know, in tough economy and post Covid, nobody really knew how our industry would settle. during Covid, you saw an enormous explosion in demand and volume. And that was simply because people couldn’t get out of the house. So they had to buy online.

And really, delivery people generally were part of that frontline workforce that we all talked about during Covid. They really provided an essential service. And I’m certainly enormously grateful to the the cruise police team for the great work they did during that time. Since then, what we’ve seen is is volume online buying settle a little bit, but it’s settled at a level that’s still much higher than it was pre-Covid.

And when you look at what’s happening around the world, you know, when you look at the US and some of the some of the more advanced European countries, online retail penetration is still only about 50%, maybe two thirds of what we’re seeing overseas. So all of the evidence around the world would suggest that people will continue to buy more. So as a percentage of what they might not spend more overall in a tough economy and a cost of living crisis, but the proportion that they’re spending online is much, much greater and we think will absolutely continue to grow.

And that’s because they’re looking for convenience. They’re looking for value, they’re looking for range, they can achieve all of those things online these days. And I guess the last five years or so has been dominated by people wanting things faster, better, cheaper, faster. That applies to a lot of industries and in particular, is no exception there. But what we’re now starting to see, and this is where I think technology really comes into into players and a core enabler in our business is people are changing their lifestyles again. They’re starting to say, well, if I work in an office, then I am going to end up back in the office a couple of days a week. So if I know that I’m home on a Thursday or a Friday, and I’ve ordered something earlier in the week, it’s more important for me to have it delivered the day that I’m home often than it is to have it delivered immediately.

So that requires a level of technology sophistication sorting in systems like ours that have really never been geared up to do that. They’ve always been geared to keep things moving quickly. What customers are clearly telling us now is that they’re more interested in a day definite delivery. And the other consequence, I guess, of people buying more and more stuff online is that things like returns become increasingly important. And one of the really inconvenient things about buying something from a store, getting it home and finding out it doesn’t fit or doesn’t work for you is that you’ve got to return it.

So we’re really working at ways of making that experience as convenient as we can. Up until now, Australia Post has been one option for a lot of e-commerce providers. We work with a group called Hubbed, which has access to more than 3,000 locations around Australia. And we’re looking to make it as easy as we can so that you can buy something online if it’s not right and you need to return it, that you can drop it off at one of these locations. It’s open long hours, it’s got parking out the front, well lit, safe, convenient, and ideally close to your house or place of work.

So we’re really trying to use technology to keep customers informed, let them decide if they’re not home, they want something to deliver to a neighbour, give them the opportunity to do that as well, and just make the whole delivery experience a lot easier. Nobody wants to get one of those cards in their letterbox anymore to say, you weren’t at home and you’ve to go and do this. So we want to digitise that whole experience.

Sarah
Yeah, that’s really interesting because I had kind of made a point that speed and reliability are obviously kind of vital in this sector. So it’s interesting that you’re bringing that back now and saying, actually speed, speed’s important, but at a time that suits us. So if I say it’s customisation, I mean, it’s not absolutely customisation, is it? But there is that sense of, guess, tailoring your service to suit your customer. And I think we quite often think of technology driving everything, but the customer experience is still very important in your whole process.

Richard
It absolutely is. And I think, you know, if I, when I talk to our customers, they put a lot of time and energy into that. And I don’t think delivery providers have, we haven’t acted like retailers, which is kind of weird when you consider that these days we’re an extension of what the retailers are doing. And when I, know, the, the main message I get from our retail customers is it’s that, that front doorstep delivery is so important because it’s replaced what would have happened at the front counter in many businesses. So we’ve really got to get that right. And we’ve got to get that right first time.

It’s interesting if you went into a store and, and they said, but that’s okay to give us three attempts at getting this experience right. Everybody would kind of walk out and say, what the hell are you talking about? So when you look at it in that context, yeah, it’s a little bit like, you know what I mean? You know how frustrating that is.

Sarah
I think sometimes retailers do that anyway. I get that feeling in some retailers.

Richard
So there’s an expectation, know, people have high expectations these days. And we’re all, and again, you know, in a cost of living crisis, we’re all looking for great value and people are time poor. So it’s really important that we learn from that. We also know that when you’re dealing in a high volume transactional industry, things do go wrong. But customers are telling us they don’t want to call and wait in a queue on a phone line. They want to be able to give us a digital message to say something’s changed or they need help with something and for it to be action that way and for them to be kept up to date basically.

Sarah
So how close are you in terms of the technology to achieving that level of customer satisfaction that you would like to be able to provide?

Richard
Yeah, look, I think on the one hand, we’re there. On the other hand, when I think about it more broadly, it’s also part of a never-ending journey. So we’ll continue to evolve. In the old days, we’d say our capital investment is all about building depots and trucks and vans and things like that. Nowadays, that kind of focus is on our technology.

And I think the quantum leap that we’ll make from where we are today, which is a pretty good experience and online tracking and all of those things, is to be able to better anticipate what customers want in the future. So when we’re seeing this in markets overseas where you’ve seen the enormous rise in the subscription economy, there’s an enormous amount of data out there. Now obviously we are absolutely committed to protecting customers’ privacy and believe that that’s important.

If we know that we’ve tried to deliver to you for the last three Fridays in a row and you haven’t been home, then I think the silliest thing and the most inconvenient thing that we can do is to try to do that again, without checking, next Friday. So it’s with our customers permission. And when I say customer, I mean both bringing sender, receiver, and the delivery business into the wine ecosystem to say, yes, you know what? We’ve now got your preferences securely stored and we’re able to meet those. I think that’s actually adding enormous value to our retail customers.

The other thing that I think is that we’re all starting to see is that wherever you live in Australia now, you’ve got access to a level of high speed internet and you can shop the department stores of the world quite literally. And I think it’s really healthy for our economy that we have a level of competition around the country.

And up until now, there’s only been one or two providers in a lot of those regional towns. So I think technology, to answer your question, gives us the ability to stitch together really good distribution networks. So we don’t always need to own everything ourselves. We need the ability to have great partnerships. And I think technology makes that a seamless experience for the customer.

Sarah
And being part of Singapore Post Group and the recent, I think it was a merger with a sibling company, FMH Group, which is logistics.

Richard
Yes, that’s right. So our business in Australia, FMH Group is quite a considerable group. One of the most exciting things about that from our perspective at Careers Please is it gives us the ability to tap into a much broader, bigger business and a really strong technology platform. So again, that’s why we’re so excited about that. We’re employing a group of technologists to help solve those problems and then add real value to customers as well. And that’s a whole lot easier now as being part of one integrated group. That group includes other businesses like Border Express. So we’ve got a really good business to business to consumer network now around Australia backed by class-leading technology.

Sarah
I want to take you back a bit. I want to rewind to your first few years and your first job. Did you have a part-time job as a teenager?

Richard
Yeah, I did. remember working as a car park attendant in a Westfield car park. It’s probably silly of me to say, don’t tell anybody this, but I don’t think I even had a driver’s licence at the time!. There was a whole different workplace health and safety regime back in those days. yeah.

Sarah
Yep. days. Yep.

Richard
And that was before there were four semesters or terms in a year. So that was a big, big long kind of summer break. And you ran out of funding pretty quickly if you didn’t have a job in the holidays.

Sarah
So I’m wondering whether there was anything, well, I’m wondering what it was that took you to accounting, because that’s your background, right? That’s how you started out.

Richard
Yeah, I started as a trainee in an accounting firm and I think it was a combination. My dad kind of trained as an accountant, obviously many years earlier. So I probably did it for a couple of reasons. One, maybe not knowing what else I wanted to do at the time, having an interest in business. And I think one of the great benefits of working for the big accounting firms is that it does give you an exposure to an enormous number of businesses, business types and business models. That’s not something I wanted to do for the rest of my life, but I think it gives you a fantastic exposure to different businesses and that ability to read a balance sheet and a panel I think is incredibly important in business as well. Now I look at kind of, you know, what the accounting firms are doing in there and they’re using technology entirely different way of course.

Sarah
But in the sense of business, obviously you were attracted to that as a concept, you know, and is that the growth? What is it that you liked?

Richard
I was always interested in business. I had the opportunity to work in the corporate office of McDonald’s, obviously one of the most well-known franchise systems around the world as well. And I just found that a fascinating experience and place to be a super dynamic business. And I was fortunate to be there with a great group of people. And I’ve been very fortunate in my career to work for a number of different businesses that were going through really turbocharged period of growth or change.

I was in the cinema business with a great group of people at Greater Union when we were going through enormous change in that business. At that stage, everybody thought DVDs were going to take over the world and change the industry. This is well before anybody even thought Netflix was going to be possible.

I was in the car rental business as well, in the travel industry for a number of years. At the time, I think we were doing 4 % of our bookings online. And we’re toying with this concept of, wow, what if we can get people to book online? So I’ve always had an interest in both technology and an interest in business. And I guess the link for me with franchising is that entrepreneurial spirit. And having worked for corporate businesses and franchise businesses and then looking at how powerful that can be when you get a great entrepreneurial group of people together or a person who wants an opportunity with a system to enable them to get up and running quickly at just how well they can do.

And one of the things I think that excites me most about the industry that I’ve spent a lot of time in in recent years in the delivery business is that we see a lot of people coming to Australia and this is their first opportunity to sink their teeth into a business. They’re often from another country with different labour laws, different outlook on business, but they’re really hardworking people and they want to get in and really make something. And when I see them, you know, get into an entry level franchise business with the goal of either building that for them and their family or alternatively being able to sell it for a capital gain and go and invest in a house or another business. I think that’s one of the most satisfying things that you can see. So, I’ve always had an interest in business. And I guess I’ve always prided myself on being able to move from one industry sector to another. I think that’s the one thing that you do learn working for the professional services firms is that cross-section of businesses makes it really interesting.

And then when you land in a business like, I mean, now you’ve got customers that are in literally hundreds of different industries. And it kind of makes it interesting coming to work every day.

Sarah
What’s the toughest lesson you’ve learned, do you think, over those experiences?

Richard
You know what, had you asked me that question five years ago, I probably would have cast my mind back 20 years. But I think when you look back at Covid, that really resets the way you look at questions like that. That question takes me back to the very first weeks and probably weeks, not months of Covid when things got very serious.

I was running a company called Snap Franchising and Snap had been in the printing industry for well over 100 years. And I sat at my desk thinking, my goodness, what am I going to do? And the print industry was kind of, been in a period of decline for a long time, for obvious reasons with the challenge of the digital world. But I sat there one day, I pulled open my drawer and I pulled out a little printed, obviously, copy of the company history and not knowing what else to do, I started flicking through that. The interesting thing was that it became immediately obvious to me what we needed to do because this was the second pandemic that that company had been through.

It had been through one in 1918 and this little booklet talked about what they did and it talked about how all these people had to continue on and work with masks and no one knew what to do. And so it was quite interesting. The lesson to me was, like there were two valuable lessons is sometimes you’ve got to stop, don’t panic, don’t knee jerk and, put a, put a plan together. and the other one was I had a lot of people saying to me, why wouldn’t you just put the business in hibernation? And the lesson that I, the most valuable lesson I think I’ve learned is that, you know what, you just can’t stop. Stopping a business and a group of people is like stopping an engine. And that’s the thing that will, that’s where you will lose your mojo. And some people will never start up again.

So I just think that that concept of saying, you know what, no matter what, don’t, don’t stop. There’s other things that you can be doing. And that, in that business gave me a great example of, sure, people weren’t walking in the door or calling and, and being online asking for things to be printed. But there was a whole bunch of other things that, the world needed and, and our industry at the time played a role in doing that, whether it was social distancing signage, whether it was masks, whether it was something else. So that ability to stop, think, pivot, but whatever you do, don’t collapse in a heap and stop because trying to start that engine again is gonna be 10 times harder.

Sarah
So it sounds as if you’re quite calm in adversity. mean, would you say that would be true or you’re someone that has to take that deep breath before you move on?

Richard
I think if you’ve had a little bit of adversity, it becomes less of a shock every time Sarah, and when you look at some of the crazy stuff that’s going on around the world, I’d put it this way, I guess, that panicking, I don’t think makes it any easier. And the other personal view that I have is that our teams have the right to come to work every day, not wondering what mood the boss is in. And I think that you, you have an obligation when you’re in a leadership role so that, you know, that people can come in and know and, and when there are challenges to sit around and be honest about them and not sitting there thinking, gee, if I have to, you know, if I have to tell the boss that there’s a real problem, how are they going to react?

I think that’s just an awful environment for people to exist in. So I think there will be challenges in, in business. There’ll be challenges in life. There are challenges around the world at the moment. I think it’s a matter of people working together to constructively solve the where you can and doing that in a calm, sensible way. But once you’re locking in a course of action, and I kind of say to my team all the time, disagree by all means, but once we commit, let’s commit to a course of action and give it a go. And if we haven’t got it right, then let’s quickly evaluate it, own it, and move forward and change it and move forward.

Sarah
So do you think that approach to, because I mean, that sounds to me like a very kind of collaborative approach, if you like, to leadership. Is that how you describe your leadership style and has that changed?

Richard
Yeah, I think your leadership style absolutely does change over the years and I would like to see myself, I see myself as a collaborative leader. I hope other people that work with me feel the same way. If anyone emails you to the contrary, let me know! But I also think leaders have the onus is on us as leaders to set the vision, to set the goals.

But also to recognise when things aren’t working and to call it out and say, okay, we tried that. Let’s be honest, that hasn’t worked. Let’s change it. But I think in terms of the execution, yes, I think it’s terribly important that people are collaborative. And I think, know, and again, going back to your question about what makes industry that I’m in now sexy, I think what we’re really selling to people is come to an organisation like ours and you get to have a say.

I like the fact that we’re big enough to get the job done, but we’re small enough to enable people to have a say. And we want to be compliant, obviously, in everything we’re required to do, but not bureaucratic. That’s kind of, I feel where I do best and I can bring the best out in other people. And I want to see people do well. And some people come and join you on that journey for 10 years, some for two, some for one.

I think the other thing as a leader that you want to do is to say to people, okay, I’m not going to hold you back. Sometimes it’s, you can be very selfish as a leader if you’re not careful and stop people growing into another opportunity. I’ve learned over many years, Sarah, that it’s a small world. You do bump into people again. The last thing you’d ever want and I’d look at it and think like, you know, I’ve got my two older boys that are out in the workforce too. So I hope people are giving them opportunities and giving them good guidance and direction as well.

Sarah
Now you’ve been involved with the Franchise Council of Australia for some time. It’s a leading body for the sector. You’ve recently been elected chair, so congratulations on that. What do you bring to the role and why is the association important?

Richard
Well, I guess, you know, you’re right. I’ve been involved in franchising and with the Franchise Council in various ways over a number of years now. I guess what I bring to the role is experience across a bunch of different brands and in quite a few different roles. And I think that that’s important because the Franchise Council is a broad church that unlike a lot of industry associations that are very focused in a particular area, we’re representing a group and franchising is the way that they do business. So we’re representing many different industries in that respect. And I think it’s important that those industries have a voice and can have a united voice when we are working in an environment that is going to become increasingly regulated. We’ve seen a lot of regulation. We’ve just been through another review.

And I think it’s important that there is a level of regulation and there’s a clear set of principles, guidelines and rules of engagement so that when people are investing in franchise systems, they know what to expect. And when people are buying a franchise or investing in a franchise as a franchisee, they’re very clear on what they can expect from their franchise.

But when you’ve got an industry association made up of many different industries, then I think the FCA plays a critical role in being able to aggregate all of that thinking and the feedback and to be able to present a coherent view to legislators and people that are making important decisions about the way that the industry needs to be regulated into the future.

Sarah
As you say, it is such a diverse sector with businesses of all sizes, mean all shapes and sizes from the small to Australia Post if you think about the licensees, it’s kind of massive. CouriersPlease is a large company, what do you think we can expect to see from CouriersPlease over the next couple of years in terms of what it offers to franchisees for instance?

Richard
I look at us at CouriersPlease as a large company made up of lots and lots of small businesses. Not unlike, I mean, the essence, we are the essence of franchising, which is getting people to come in and have a go and creating a framework and system for them. And you touched on our expansion, which is very much a theme for the next couple of years. So that’s the reason that we’re investing in the big depots, the facilities, so people have the right resources and the right support around them, because our plan is very much a growth plan.

We’re a relatively small market share player, but as you point out, there are enormous organisations like Australia Post. So we see a really strong growth path. One of the lessons that I think businesses around the world learned during Covid was that you don’t want to put all your eggs in one basket. So I think what we bring is a level of competition to the market, and I think that’s healthy. That’s certainly the feedback that we’re getting from customers. We offer an alternative to the way that things are done.

What I love about our model is that we’re not just a delivery model, because what being a franchise enables us to do is to give our franchisees the tools to maintain their own local customer relationships. People often get fixated on the big brands that we deal with, and we have some fantastic big brands in our portfolio, which are really important to us. One of the things that I enjoy the most is talking to our franchise partners about some of the smaller businesses that they work with.

And our small business customers tell us that they love dealing with another business owner because we have the flexibility, the agility to help them with their needs. So if they’re running three or four sales a year, they’re able to be in constant communication with their franchise partner about that.

So what to answer your question, we see there’s an opportunity for fantastic growth over the next couple of years. We’re determined to expand our physical footprint. At the moment, we’ve got a really great operation in five capital cities and some of the big regional areas. We think there’s a real opportunity to expand regionally. We’d love to give people an opportunity to get into their own business at a really affordable entry-level cost and access the backbone of our network. So we think there’s a really compelling proposition there. And we think we’ve got a really strong proposition for customers as well.

Sarah
Fantastic. Well, from what we’ve seen of the market, it’s going to develop in many different ways and probably quite rapidly. So it’ll be an exciting time following the progress of CouriersPlease.

Richard Thame
There’s never a dull moment in this industry, that’s for sure, Sarah. But yeah, and right now there are big sales on. We’re about to head into the busiest time of the year. So I’d encourage everybody to look online and grab yourself a bargain. And I hope we’ve got the opportunity to deliver it for you.

Sarah
Very nicely said. Thanks for chatting with us today, Richard.

Richard
Thanks so much, Sarah.