Welcome to Spill the Biz. I’m Sarah Stowe. Head editor at Inside Franchise Business. Join me as we have candid conversations with leading entrepreneurs and business owners behind some of the world’s most impressive franchise brands. At Inside Franchise Business. we acknowledge the traditional owners of country throughout Australia, we pay our respects to elders past and present.

Sarah (00:30):

Today, I’m talking with Amber Manning. Amber has been passionate about business since she became Australia’s youngest financial services franchisee owning her own business at just 20. Today. She heads up the largest hairdressing franchise in the Southern hemisphere. Just Cuts. 

In her career. Amber has moved from IT into marketing and senior management. She’s worked with retail brands as well as management consultants, KPMG and PWC, and held a project leadership role for mission Australia. The Just Cuts no-appointments, fixed-price haircuts business model founded by hairdresser Dennis McFadden is a simple model and it’s been a success for more than 30 years. 

Amber began working with Dennis in 2014 and has proved to be a driving force in innovation and global expansion. In this podcast, we talk about her very first ambitions, how she saw opportunities to use her skills in business. We chat about leadership and what it looks like today and discuss how to keep a business true to its principles while still innovating and changing. 

Amber reveals her secrets to successful small business and offer some advice for key entrepreneurs wanting to take the plunge and set up in business. And we discover what it is that makes the Just Cuts brand such a success. Amber welcome. 

Amber, I’d like to start our chat with a sense of how you have shaped your career. Can we flash back to the early days? What was your goal when you left school? And did you have any particular

Amber (02:01):

Ambitions? Wow, well, I wanted to travel the world <laugh> that was my goal. <laugh> I, my, uh, aunties were, you know, backpacking all over Africa and, and they wanted to travel and, and I wanted to travel. So that was my goal, uh, when I left school, but thankfully my mother, uh, made me study it, uh, thinking computers were gonna be the next big thing. And, uh, I learned how to pull computers apart, put them back together and, uh, was, was in the, the it space and landed in, in marketing and accounting world. 

So I feel that, uh, it’s really shaped, you know, the beginning, but my very, very first job was actually sweeping hair for $5 an hour every Saturday when I was at school. So I must have been destined because it wasn’t, it wasn’t to, to go into, uh, the, the hairdressing, uh, space, but definitely I ended up in that space and also in franchising.

It’s amazing, um, the journey that you, you go on. I owned my first franchise, uh, when I was 20 years old, uh, in, in bookkeeping and accounting space. And, uh, I got to 21 and thought, I don’t wanna be up at 2:00 AM doing business activity statements. This isn’t for me, i<laugh> I want a lifestyle and I wanna travel. And, uh, I, I was able to sell that business and, um, and, and move again more into franchising space and supporting franchisees. 

So I’ve really been on a journey and, uh, I feel that it’s really shaped me, you know, having an it background, knowing how to put computers together to accounting and marketing.

Sarah (03:38):

Did you, it’s interesting because I sort of imagine somehow the, it might be something that you have to have a real interesting to go into to actually kind of pursue that. Was it something that you had a love for anyway, or, or did you kind of grow to appreciate what you could do with it in terms of, you know, growing that career as you did and moving into new areas?

Amber (03:57):

Yeah, look, I definitely grew to appreciate it. I believe, you know, when I started my course, you know, I was still at school. I was actually in year 10 and I actually started through TAFE. I didn’t go straight to university. So, uh, and that, that connected me with my first job and, and grew my love for, you know, I was in working for a computer firm at the time. And, uh, you know, in out the back building computers with the guys, which obviously then shaped my learning for how computers work and you know, what servers work and how everything connected. And that really sparked my interest. 

So it’s interesting you say that, cause I’ve never thought of it like that because I love, you know, even today I love APIs. Like they’re so exciting <laugh> and how, how they work, but that’s not to say I’m an it expert at all, but I do have the basic knowledge

Sarah (04:48):

In today’s world, particularly at Just Cuts which is not, um, a technically dependent business, how important is it that you, that you can bring that knowledge and embrace technology and, uh, see those opportunities in business?

Amber (05:05):

Well, it’s so interesting you say that Sarah, because obviously we always say, isn’t it great, you know, you can’t get your haircut online, but I can tell you in the back of my mind, we are planning for that because you just never know. I don’t imagine a robot popping out of a computer <laugh> <laugh>, uh, but, but we, we’re definitely planning for that. And I, you know, we’ve been on a journey at Just Cuts where we’ve gone from, uh, your general using, um, paper to making sure that every salon is online and they even have wifi in their salons. Uh, and that’s then gone to thank goodness in lockdown and the journey we’ve just been on the last two years that we’ve got apps where you can check in online and you don’t have to, uh, you know, walk into the salon,  you can sit and wait.

So everything that we do now is actually digitally focused, uh, in terms of, uh, our online eCommerce space, uh, how we make our job, the job easier for our, our team, our stylist at the frontline, we have two and a half thousand hairdressers that we need to communicate with. So, you know, that digital and technology space, we had eLearning, obviously it was printed in books, then we went to online, but guess what? Hairdressers don’t have computers they’re, you know, on their phone, on their way to work. So they wanna watch e-learning on their phone. So we’ve just been on a real journey, uh, in everything that we do, we actually say, how can we automate it, or how can we digit, you know, make that in that digital space.

Sarah (06:33):

And do you still get involved in that? I mean, with, with your background, is that, is that something that you say you can’t, can’t help yourself? 

Amber (06:42):

Yes I have a real passion for, but it’s interesting because, you know, we need our accounting team involved. We need our legal team involved in everything that we do. You know, you need to make sure that you have your privacy statements and you know, everything correct. So it’s, it’s bringing, I guess that’s my role is making sure that I’m bringing everyone together. 

And I, you know, that’s my real belief in leadership is that bringing everyone together to collaborate, uh, on, on that journey. I mean, even myself, when we talk about our, so even social media, I will actually respond to some of our, um, you know, clients online, uh, whether it’s a, a compliment or a complaint, I make a, a conscious effort once a week to log in and see what our feedback is that we’re getting online and respond myself, because I wanna put myself in the shoes of my team, uh, and make sure that, you know, what, what are we doing is something come about that, you know, might not have been identified. 

So I think as a leader, you know, you have the real opportunity to still be in the business, even though you’ve still got that bird’s eye view.

Sarah (07:47):

And have you, you mentioned earlier the last couple of years, and obviously, you know, every conversation now is, is, is sort of constrained by the fact that we’ve had such a tough couple of years in terms of, of Covid and, and all kinds of disasters going on. What has the, that period made a difference to how you lead and how, and, and any of the values that you might hold in business. I’m just wondering, has there been a, a change, or whether that’s a position that you’ve always held?

Speaker 2 (08:13):

I’ve always held flexibility in the workplace. I must say that, uh, it’s allowed us to be much more flexible in terms of obviously remote working. I’ve had two team members move to Byron Bay and one to Brisbane in this time. <laugh>, uh, so definitely my leadership has had to change in that collaboration, bringing everyone together. 

What does that look like outside of Zoom and, you know, messaging? So key to that obviously is, is going back to basics of actually picking up the phone and talking to people. So I find that, you know, people are a bit Zoomed out at the moment, so then they resort to emails and actually things might come across differently. So just picking up that phone is, is absolutely key in, in working with your teams and getting team members to work together.

Sarah (09:02):

It’s, it’s old school, isn’t it? And it’s funny how it, it sort of kind of comes back and, and that sense of wanting to actually engage.

Amber (09:09):

Yes. And

Sarah (09:10):

That’s a different way.

Amber (09:12):

And that’s been our focus in the business, uh, at a head office level and, and in our teams, uh, and our focus areas because we went, oh, gosh, everything’s new. We’ve gotta focus on, on what are we gonna do? That’s new because we can embrace this with Covid. But actually for us, it’s been a lot of, let’s bring it back to basics and, and go a bit old school because people need to connect. And that’s where our communication in video has been, uh, you know, that video engagement, uh, having myself, having my team members on video talking, uh, we’ve really embraced, uh, Facebook live where, you know, we, we have online communities now where we’re, we’re connecting with our team members. We’re connecting with our stylist, we’re connecting with our small business owners with our franchisees and they know who we are. And they’re learning about us personally.

Sarah (10:03):

And for, for franchisees who are obviously at the heart of this, you know, the, the small business owners themselves, are they embracing it? Do they enjoy that way, that, you know, the way of communication, the fact that they can perhaps identify more clearly with customers and with head office?

Amber (10:21):

Yes. Well, yeah, definitely. In terms of the, the customer journey in, in feedback online, I mean, we say now, you know, for us mystery shoppers, we have mystery shoppers every day on, on social media. So, you know, do we really need mystery shoppers going into stores anymore when you have people giving you feedback across so many different platforms? 

So I think being able to measure in that digital space, you know, we’ve set up our reviews and tracking of that and what that looks like in comparison to our competition as well. Uh, so we’ve been able to really embrace and measure that. Uh, but also we had owners that obviously didn’t know what Zoom was, or, uh, didn’t know how to use a QR code. And, you know, now it’s QR code, there’s QR code on everything. So it’s been really exciting journey for us to really bring our owners on that journey. And especially for, you know, those owners meetings, we would normally have, uh, owners meetings where everyone would fly in on a quarterly basis. 

Now, you know, we have even a higher turnout because so many more people can dial in, but we’re obviously looking at that hybrid space where we’ve had, we’ve had our last two events have actually been a bit of both. So no matter what state we’re in, where we’re running something, now people can log in from anywhere.

Sarah (11:37):

Now, you mentioned, um, just in the, in the conversation previously, just a little bit about, um, you know, the opportunity that, that Covid brought in terms of trying to do something new and exciting. And I just wanted to, to talk about that because Just Cuts is really such a simple idea, isn’t it? The no-appointments haircut, it’s been a sustainable business, it’s stayed true to its principles. And I know that you now have more add-ons in terms of services, and you’ve got quite a comprehensive range of products, but I’m interested in how, you know, when to switch up from what essentially is quite a niche business, it’s, it’s a core service. How do you know when to switch that up and do something different without losing that brand identity and purpose?

Amber (12:18):

Absolutely well, that’s, that’s going back to, to our customer and listening to our clients. So, uh, the one thing that we, we did do just coming out of lockdown was our research piece on, on our customers and what are they telling us and what, what do they like? And to our absolute delight, their, their number one favourite thing is being able to check in for a haircut from home. So isn’t it amazing that their, their favourite thing was to embrace technology, which is, which is fabulous to us. 

So that’s really helped us on our journey to say, how else can we support them in that technology space? Uh, and again, that’s really helped us to drive our eCommerce space. So we manufacture our own product range, uh, and how could we, we make those add-ons. So, and again, we say we’re relying on our customer feedback.

We’re actually also relying on our stylist feedback. Again, we have two and a half thousand hairdressers, and we want to know what is it that they want, what is it that they’re hearing from their customers? So we conduct regular surveys, uh, to our closed Facebook group on what are they hearing, uh, you know, is there a product missing? Is there something we can change in our operations and training? Uh, is there something specific you’d like in your training? 

So constantly surveying our stylists, which being our team members, and again, constantly, uh, you know, talking to our customers and, and really reviewing that feedback as to what they want.

Sarah (13:41):

What’s the process then if you get a, if you get all this feedback and I imagine that that some of it would be consistent. And so obviously there’s a message there. Yes. Some of it might be less, you know, a little bit more diverse. What, how do you handle that? Where do you kinda make those decisions and, and where do you move to?

Amber (13:56):

Sure. So I mean, weekly, our compliments and complaints are sent out weekly. So everybody sees the compliments and complaints and, and, uh, especially even around actioned or, or un-actioned so that we can get some learnings from that. So our operations team use that in their areas to focus on, is this a learning? Is it something reoccurring? So our operations support team will look at okay, on a monthly basis, we might have got three or four of a similar complaint. Is that a training issue, or do we need to put some more training around it or actually, do we need to go back and look at, you know, is, is a product broken or is something not working? Do we need to go back, uh, to our manufacturing side and see what’s happening there?

Sarah (14:38):

And is there a time scale that, that you would say normally would, it would take to get an idea from concept to, um,

Amber (14:46):

Well, that’s what I, that’s what I love about, uh, family business and small business, Sarah, is that we don’t have any red tape. You know, we’re very lucky. We’re still a privately owned business. And I love that, you know, we can, we can move quickly and get things done quickly. And I think that that’s evident, um, in the, the face of the last two years, it was, we had to make quick decisions and things that would normally take five years, we, we’re taking, you know, three to six months. So, uh, we, we certainly embrace, uh, if it’s an idea that we can roll out, uh, quick, as quickly as we can. Uh, again, it comes down to communication. We need to communicate out to over 220 salons, uh, you know, over 120 business owners and, and three different countries. So the, the key comes down to communication. We can’t just roll something out and hope that they’ll catch on. A lot of it needs to come into, uh, training for our team members and making sure that they’ve been communicated to before anything is rolled out.

Sarah (15:45):

Um, you touched on there, on, on your three countries. So, I mean, Just Cuts has been, um, in business in Australia for, for decades. Um, you’ve now moved the brand overseas or no now moved it expanded overseas, which is really exciting. So can you just tell us a little bit about that and about how you’re sort of approaching that overseas growth?

Amner (16:06):

Absolutely. So we are, we are moving to, uh, master arrangements internationally. We, we still look after New Zealand, uh, here from Australia, but we are looking at it from two perspectives. Obviously we have Just Cuts franchising and we have Justice Professional, which is our hair care range. So we’re currently, uh, exporting our product to five different countries, uh, outside of Australia. So that’s super exciting for us. So we have a, uh, a, a quite a aggressive plan in regards to making sure that we are able to be, uh, start manufacturing, Australian made products as well, so that we can, uh, start continue to, to export to these countries, but also establishing master arrangements, uh, in, in other countries and making sure that we’ve got the support behind that. 

So we now have an international business manager who is really connecting in with those masters. We, I mean, we just opened our first salon in, in Taiwan, over lockdown.

Uh, we are very fortunate that one of our team members is Taiwanese. So she’s been able to do, um, the scripts and voiceovers and, and everything. So we’ve just, you know, updated all our eLearning and, and, and that type of thing. So we’ve, we’ve been super lucky in that way, you know, we’ve so we’ve, you know, really had to change our, our language as well, the way we look at things and the way we market in different markets. So we’re very excited about that and obviously working with Austrade, um, and, and really looking at how we’re exporting Just Cuts and Justice Professional, uh, globally.

Sarah (17:39):

And that’s interesting because as you said, you’re a family biz, still family-owned business. And, uh, you know, you’re, you’re expanding that footprint. That’s a balance, isn’t it between still being that small, you know, having the small business mentality, if you like, in terms of your own franchisees and each country has its own growth plans as small business, but obviously then moving into being a bit more of an international brand. I would imagine there’s a few challenges there in, in keeping that.

Amber (18:11):

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, for me, it’s about honouring our franchisees and in Australia and I mean, you know, our first franchisee of 30, I think we’re heading into 32 years is, is still with us in the brand today. So our, our tenure for our franchisees, uh, is averaging around 15 years at the moment. Uh, last year we had two franchisees retire. We’ve just had another franchisee, uh, sell for, you know, record price and being able to retire. 

So for me, it’s, and I guess, I think you might have mentioned before that, that legacy brand it’s really honouring, you know, our founder, Denis, of what he created, uh, and our franchisees, you know, they keep us true, especially through our, uh, FAC our Franchise Advisory Council, uh, in, you know, what’s happening here in Australia and what’s important for them. And that really keeps me grounded as to what it is that they want and honoring them and the, you know, they’ve helped us build the brand.

Sarah (19:13):

So what do you, what do you think is key in, in running a small business?

Amber (19:18):

Being able to move quickly? Absolutely. Uh, you know, being able to embrace technology, uh, as I said, you know, APIs, I think now in small business, um, you know, it was always budget constraints around, I don’t have millions of dollars to spend on it. You know, how, how can we, how can we do this? And I think we’ve, we’ve technology in small business now, um, being able to use, you know, social media is absolutely key and small business, really around networking in your community. Networking is key knowing your community, and that’s what we are driving, uh, for our salons in, in every local area now is really connecting with your community.

Sarah (19:59):

And can you just quickly give us a, an insight into the people who are your franchisees? I mean, is there a, a typical franchisee? Are they all hairdressers the people that own these salons?

Amber (20:10):

No. Interestingly enough. So we have around, uh, well, it’s probably around 24 owners at the moment that are actually hairdressers and the rest are investors. So we have, uh, bank managers, police, officers, builders, uh, you know, accountants, we’ve got a few accountants in the group. So, uh, it’s, it’s a very interesting, uh, mix. So we actually, there’s not one area that, uh, you know, of background, uh, for us obviously having an interest in, in a business, but, uh, with our multis selling owners, it’s, I think that’s, you know, something that we honour and respect too, that our franchisees, when they come on board, all of a sudden they want another one and that’s super exciting for us. And, and that’s how we’ve been able to grow through our, our multi-unit ownership.

Sarah (20:56):

And so what do you think, um, are, are the sort of obstacles today for, for small businesses, either people wanting to get into, uh, business themselves or who are already operating, you know, one or two of your salons?

Amber (21:08):

Already operating, and I think this is for every industry at the moment is recruitment trying to get, uh, the right team members. So, you know, one of our focus areas is, is how do we get new people into the industry, uh, that want to be hairdressers? So again, we’re, we’re going down pathways for apprenticeship programs, uh, working with, with local governments to help us to be able to, you know, get correct courses and training in place, uh, to make sure that, uh, we have accredited hairdressers in the business. 

Uh, so really I think recruitment is, is a key challenge, obviously rents, uh, an interesting one, I think, a great opportunity if you’re going into business right now, a good opportunity to get, get into a lease, but if you’re already in one, um, you know, that’s, <laugh>, that’s a interesting,

Sarah (21:59):

Not, not so great.

Amber (22:01):

No, no, not so not so great. And, uh, yeah, also an interesting one when you’re in the middle of floods, we’re just going through that in Lismore at the moment. So <laugh>, uh, we’ve lost two salons through the flood. So that’s been an interesting one. So look, it’s been, uh, a very much a roller coaster, uh, over time. Absolutely. But I think if, you know, for people looking to get into business, uh, it’s really, you know, again, it’s it’s, can you get the right team members is, is the biggest challenge in, in business at the moment.

Sarah (22:34):

And, and just finally, if you had one piece of advice for, or would be entrepreneur, so they’ve got their own business idea, or they’re, they’re really keen to kind of, um, join joining with someone else’s business and it’s a franchise. What, what advice would you offer them in terms of kinda going well?

Amber (22:51):

Absolutely. Do your research, do your due diligence, uh, you know, be able to talk to other people in the business, if it is a, if it is a franchise brand, uh, if you’re going into your own business a again, it’s doing your research and knowing your competition and, you know, can you, can you be better than your competition? It’s always, always keeping ahead of your competition. 

I think going into business in, at, you know, this year or the next few years is super exciting because of technology. I mean, we, we, uh, again, will Just Cuts being, uh, over 30 years in the business, just as professional we’re, we’re still growing and, um, uh, you know, still an up and coming brand, we would say, uh, but again, you know, over the last few months we’ve been able to embrace social media by going into TikTok.

We now have 40,000 followers on TikTok. So I would say, fantastic. Yeah, it’s super exciting. Uh, we’ve got, you know, over 5 million views. I mean, you just couldn’t get that, you know, you couldn’t pay for that on Facebook at the moment. So although our marketers might tell me, otherwise, I’m not, I’m not an expert in that space, but, uh, they give me all the analytics and apparently that’s really good. So, uh, <laugh>, uh, that’s super exciting. 

So I think, you know, for young entrepreneurs going to business these days, isn’t it amazing that you can pull out your phone and be on video and create, you know, people going into business. Now, people buy from people that they like and people buy from people that they trust and Aussies love supporting Aussies. We love supporting each other. 

So I think if you have an idea, go for it. I would say, get on TikTok, get on social media. <laugh> your best communication is, is through video and people wanna connect with you in that way. And I think that’s super exciting, um, you know, for people entering, entering the business in, in the new world.

Sarah (24:41):

So Amber, funnily enough, we’ve ended up, we’ve actually gone full circle. We started talking about IT and technology and digital and, um, and here we are. We are back there again. So look, it’s been lovely chatting with you. I really appreciate, uh, your time. And, uh, it’s been great to hear more about your career and Just Cuts. Thank you so much.

Amber (24:59):

Thank you, Sarah.

Sarah (25:04):

Thanks again for listening to Spill the Biz. Don’t forget to subscribe, and if this podcast spiked your interest in world of franchising, make sure you check out our website insidefranchisebusiness.com.au for more great insight and tips on how to get started.