Sarah Stowe
So welcome, Peter. Great to have you with us today. We’re going to be talking about pastry, which is fantastic. Who doesn’t love great pastry? Pattison’s is a go-to patisserie, if you’re lucky enough as I am to have one locally. But it has kept a fairly low profile. So tell us about the business. What is Paterson’s Patisserie?

Peter Pattison
We established the business back in 15th of December 1995, a week or so before Christmas, which is a very fun time to open a hospitality business. Yeah, so we bought an existing bakery at the time, actually. It was always in the mindset of starting one from scratch and just lived it and felt out the store at the time and the vision was always…

I’m a patissiere by background, so love patisserie, love French culture, love French food. So yeah, over the next few months, heading into 1996, I think I was then, we converted our business into a patisserie, focusing on French pastries.

Sarah
So you set up pre-Christmas, which is challenging as you said, and how did you grow the business? What was the approach that you took? Was it kind of strategic in the sense of, I wanna be in X number of places or I wanna be in these locales, or was it simply an opportunity came up and you grabbed it?

Peter
Yeah, no big vision. It was pretty much opportunity-based. Look, when we first started in business, it was just being your own boss, I suppose, being able to do something that you enjoy doing, running a business and all of those things that everyone looks at in terms of owning your own business. That’s the enjoyment, being your own boss, so to speak.

But growing from there was just purely opportunity. We only had one store and I think the key driver actually was, our first store was at Sennives and there was always talk of a clear way going in ever since we started the store. And that clear way was meant to be a 24-7 clear way so we didn’t really realise whether the business would survive once that came out. So you know an opportunity then came for a second site at Westfield Hornsby actually, back when the development was happening back then. So yeah, so it’s really been an opportunity-based journey even since then.

Sarah
And so in terms of scaling then, because you’ve joined the world of franchising fairly recently. So what was the catalyst for really deciding you were going to ramp up this scale? Because I think you had 13, am I right? You had 13 stores, patisseries at that point.

Peter
Yes. So 13 stores, you know, we, we had 13 of our own stores, franchising wasn’t really something that we love the control of having our own stores. But, but understanding when getting into the world of franchising is that, you know, you’re taking on business partners and that then is a, is a different journey in itself.

So, you know, everything in terms of operating three of your own retail outlets as well as the commercial patisserie kitchen is very challenging you know so there’s certain things that run well having owner operators within the business obviously lured us to understand that the business would have a better customer service base we felt and I think that’s true.

Sarah
Now you’ve got, I think, quite a few, what I would call very well established team members. There’s obviously a loyalty there. There’s some longevity amongst some of your key leaders. And I wonder what is it that you think nurtures that? Is it because it’s a family business or is there something more to Paterson’s that, you know, gets people to stay and go along the journey with you?

Peter
I think it’s the forever, we’re forever evolving, even though two of my main, my head pastry chef and my sous pastry chef have been with me for over 20 years, even since apprentices. Their journeys completely changed from what they were to what they are now. So their roles continuously change and they work in their strengths. And I think that’s the key thing with even a lot of the team within the kitchen that have been with me for over 10 years as well within different areas of the kitchen.

They’re good at what they do and you just work on their strengths. I think as the business has evolved, growing has also assisted them to grow their skills and manage the team around them.

Sarah
And in terms of, yeah, you’re talking there about, I guess, empowering people to some degree, aren’t you, in terms of following their skills. And that comes down to leadership. How would you define your own leadership skills?

Peter
It can do attitude, I suppose. Lead by example. Very much, you know, I’ll do what anyone else does. I’m a pastry chef. I’ve created the business, I’ve created the product and, you know, every day is a new day, which you need to do as you did the day before. So, yeah, in terms of leadership, it’s very much lead by example.

Sarah
You mentioned there about the kitchens. Now I know you’ve, one of the challenges with scale obviously is how you replicate and how efficient you are with your systems. With something like patisserie, it’s obviously important that your standards are high. So I think you have a centralized kitchen, is that correct? Yeah, and so how does that operate in terms of getting the product out to the stores?

Peter
So we’re still very hands-on on what we do with our product. You know, we, team starts at 2am, 3am, 4am. You know, we use technologies like retard approvers, which we call them for, you know, we make our pastries and they have a very low yeast content and a long fermentation time. So the team gets in and, you know, definitely is on point from the time they walk in you know, the product is in stores, or leaving the kitchen from 5.30 a.m. and on the doorsteps of some of the stores from 6 a.m. through till 7.30 a.m.

So we do, we still do two deliveries a day. So we’ve got our bread products and then we have our sort of second delivery if you sort of call it, that comes through with, you know, your next range of products for the day. So we still keep it very hands-on and as fresh as we can possibly do.

Sarah
So what do you what do you specifically look for in a franchisee?

Peter
Oh, really, just dedication, I suppose, to..being there to deliver the final result of what we do. So the products always sold itself as we sort of say. Everyone wants a nice experience when you’re in a patisserie or a cafe or a restaurant. It’s the customer service area that’s the area that they need to focus on ensuring that they meet all expectations that customers wants and needs and yeah, so it’s not over complicated, but that’s hospitality.

Sarah
And you’ve introduced some new store models, some store formats, I think, rather than just the traditional. So can you talk through those? What’s actually a part of that?

Peter
Yeah, we’re looking next year to branch out a little bit more into that. So it’s a Pattison’s Petite concept. So it’s just a smaller version of what we do. We have touched on it before by doing kiosks as we called it. But it’s really more of a small store format, more of an affordable format as well for people to get into their own business.

It’d be very, very focused on ensuring that you do have an owner-operator within the store. And just hitting all those little gains by just ensuring you’re giving good customer service and it won’t be a large format store. So easier to run, easier to manage, easier financial entry point. And yeah, sort of the harder you work, the better the return.

Sarah
And would you see that as an entry level for someone that wanted to come in and then perhaps move on to a full store? I mean, do you see that there would be that kind of career progression, if you like?

Peter
Yeah, we’ve had those discussions. I presume that would be a good journey for people if that’s what they want. Some may be happy with the format, but yeah, the opportunity’s there for someone that wants to sort of step in and experience it to then get into a bigger format is always something that we would help and grow and assist with.

Sarah
And so what are your kind of expansion plans then say for 2024 and maybe, you know, a couple of years ahead? Have you got that defined in terms of a strategy or are you still open to, still open to persuasion?

Peter
Oh look, we’re very much, we don’t have any targets in which we want 50 stores by next year or 10 stores or 15 stores. We’ve never been like that and even still, we look at all the opportunities that are on hand, making sure that deals such as rentals and…locations are all right.

So we would rather maximize, we would rather have less stores and ensure that those stores are maximizing their revenue as much as possible than focusing on doubling the stores with a fast growth strategy and losing sight of what we’re trying to do and achieve. So yeah, still very much opportunity-based. So what that is.

Sarah
To me kind of if I look at a Pattison’s store I think it’s fairly classical you know it’s got a bit of a French feel about it is that the will that kind of continued is it something that you would look at refreshing over time how important is kind of the look of the business to the Pattison’s name

Peter
Yes, we love the French feel. It’s what we, it’s what our foundations are in terms of patisserie, food, traditions of what the French do with pastries. But yeah, in terms of look and feel, we kind of evolve as we go. So, being around for 30 years, as each store will go through you know, a period. So our new stores are, went through sort of like a bit of a Hampton’s sort of style look back about eight years ago, but we’ve sort of tuned in a little bit more, still got a bit of that in there, but yeah, they kind of evolved for the area, either the centre that they’re in or the location they’re in.

So if we’re building one on the beaches, it’ll sort of have that local flair to it as well. So it’s not a cookie cutter approach, it’s very bespoke and they’re all unique but they still need to look and be branded as a Pattison’s.

Sarah
And does that apply to the menu as well? I mean, is there an element of customisation for particular markets, or is it absolutely a standard menu that you’ll get in St. Ives, or you’ll get in Bondi, or you’ll, you know.

Peter
Yeah, product mix will change naturally, so we have a large menu as such. What that location will sell in terms of the product mix really determines in the position of the store. So, you know, some areas that we’re treated, we’re sort of more treated heavily as a fast cafe, go-to, toastie, coffee, sit and go to the suburban stores where there’s a lot of bread sales, it really depends on the location of the store. But we’ve got a large menu and it caters for each location.

Sarah
And I imagine that you’ve taken much more of a helicopter perspective. You’ve got a new general manager or your first general manager. Yeah. And so you, do you see yourself as less hands-on now and taking more of a strategic role?

Peter
Yes.

Peter
Yes, that’s the idea. Fortunately or unfortunately, that came about right in the second wave of Covid. So, you know, we’re like most retail businesses or food businesses, you know, it was definitely or for everyone was in the period it was very shaky in retail food. So where we want to be isn’t where, where we are isn’t where we want it to be, but that’s just what Covid sort of brought upon us.

But yeah, look, again, I think that stems down to the longevity of the staff for all of us to, the new management that will come in with the businesses is really hiring them and taking them on for the strengths. So same with the general manager and even same for myself being able to focus more on the stronger parts, the strategic parts of the business as well. So yeah, that’s sort of the exciting times ahead I suppose to where we would like to have been by now.

Sarah
Well, I think as you said, it affected everybody and you started franchising just before Covid hit, which was probably pretty bad timing. How did you manage that kind of that period and how do you deal with those sorts of challenges personally? What’s your sort of personal approach?

Peter
Personal approach, yeah, that was actually our first franchise we handed over the week Covid hit in Sydney, Chatswood, actually. So it was definitely a massive eye-opener, not what you wanted to do. So yeah, we just had to bunker down like everyone else, ride the storm through, no one knew where we were going to end.

So look, I keep saying we’re still licking our wounds from it. But we’re through it now, we feel, obviously. And then now it’s about just refocusing back to where we want it to be. And that’s the strategy there.

Sarah
You sound quite pragmatic. You sound like someone that’s kind of quite measured and isn’t necessarily thrown by challenges that come your way. Is that true or is that just appearance? Yeah.

Peter
Probably, yeah, it is hospitality. So anything, any curve ball can be thrown at any point.

Sarah
Do you ever do any patisserie yourself? Do you ever get hands on? Do you make pastry at home? Or have you had enough of the pastry when you get home? You think that’s it?

Peter
No, no, I still enjoy it and yeah, sometimes I’ll you know get some pastries and take home and put them together and do something with them. But still, it’s still very hands-on with, you know, my, my head pastry chef in terms of development. That’s something that we want to focus a little bit more on again. You know, we’ve got Christmas coming up, so that’s, that, that’s a big focus of what we do with certain Christmas products, but next year we’ll be focusing back on redesigning the menu and epice it up a bit, I suppose.

Sarah
Well, it sounds exciting. It sounds like there’s lots of development to come our way. So look, thank you very much. It was great to have a chat with you, Peter, and just find out a little bit more. And hopefully we’ll see a lot more of Pattison’s in the next few years.

Peter
No problem. Thank you.