Sarah Stowe

Hello, my guest today is Trent Fraser, the CEO of Choice Hotels Asia Pacific. Our conversation reveals how a childhood experience sparked a whole career in hospitality, why it’s still a challenging and exciting sector, how the travel industry and customer expectations have changed, and why being an infallible leader is not what leadership is really about.

Welcome, Trent. It’s great to be chatting with you today. Now you’ve been in hospitality since the age of 16, I think. What attracted you in the first place to the world of hotels and hospitality?

Trent Fraser (01:41):

Yeah, look, thank you for the opportunity, Sarah. Great to talk to you.  I suppose my very earliest memories in hospitality or hotels was as a young child of all places over in the UK and we were staying at a hotel with my parents, obviously, and I remember the turndown service having a chocolate on the pillow, and I was fascinated from that moment onwards. I thought that was a bit of magic, and I’ve always been fascinated around how hotels, you know, what’s the backstory? What happens? How does it all come together? There’s a certain mystery and magic there for me from that day. So that was really what began my curiosity.

And then I suppose through school, I just, I didn’t feel like I found a subject or a topic that I could naturally connect to. So I got a job after school, like a lot of people do, you know, probably in preparation for, you know, my real job, whatever that was going to be. But I fell into hospitality and hotels specifically from that moment.  I love the interaction with people. I love the variety. And I think even today what attracted me and what I enjoyed in those early years is something that would be important for young people today. That’s the opportunity to take on responsibility quickly, you know, I think than a lot of other professions, the opportunity to, to travel.

Sarah Stowe (03:05):

Why is that, sorry to interrupt you, but why, why do you think it has more responsibility in early eight? Yeah,

Trent Fraser (03:11):

I think it’s a more of a dynamic environment, I think, and you get to see people’s strengths and weaknesses very quickly, I think cos there’s different situations, every day is very different. There’s pressure, there’s lateral thinking, there’s, you know, there’s, there’s remaining calm in front of customers. There’s you know all sorts of things that change in that job day to day. So I think you get a really quick picture on, on who those potential performers are. And yeah, and I think for the, for the motivated individuals that want to look at hospitality as a career rather than perhaps just the job, which at times I think is our challenge as an industry. There’s a lot to be, to be enjoyed.

So there’s, you know, travel is another element which is you know, really part of the, part of the landscape when you’re in hospitality or hotels particularly. I’ve had the benefit of travelling and working in many different states and a couple of different countries. So I think for young people today, you know, if you think about reasonably quick progression, early responsibility involved with managing people, travel, a changing work environment, dynamic work environment, they’re all the things that I think people, young people look for today. So so that’s really what, what got me interested and and hooked on, on hotels, if you like.

Sarah Stowe (04:37):

It’s interesting, isn’t it? I mean, I relate to what you’re saying there about the, all the elements almost behind the scenes in it’s, it’s like hospitals or any big organisation where you’re kind of at the front, but there’s all this stuff happening behind that, that’s making it all work, all the cogs working together.

Was there anything that surprised you once you kind of got into hospitality? Was there something that you weren’t expecting out of the roles?

Trent Fraser (05:05):

Look, I I don’t think it was anything particularly surprising. I suppose the just the different people, the different customers, the different team members that, you know, you were, I was working with. I suppose that was probably probably the biggest, you know, surprise, but also at the same time, the most enjoyable part of it. I think that’s, that was really, you know, it’s, it was always for me it’s always been a real team sport, you know, there’s no one individual that can, that can, you know be a success. It’s such a team, team sport in hotels, in hospitality, that’s for sure. But I probably, so I, I enjoyed that. But I feel that yeah, it was probably just dealing with the, the, the different customers and the different experiences day to day, I think was probably the, probably the biggest surprise. I think.

Sarah Stowe (05:53):

Now you’ve spent quite a long time in, in, with two brands, really. You spent 21, I think almost 21 years with, with Choice Hotels. And I’m just wondering what is that’s kinda kept you, kept you there.

Trent Fraser (06:07):

Yeah. Maybe a little different to you know careers today, but I look, I just love what I do. I love what I do today. I love the industry for, for many, many years. I’ve really had two careers if you look at it first with Southern Pacific Hotels prior to joining Choice, that was a management company. So I love the, you know, challenge of working in running hotels eventually through, you know, four or five different states in Australia and through two different countries. So I was in, I think nine hotels over 14 years. So, although that was a long you know, a long association and a wonderful career, there was, there was a lot of change. There was a lot of challenge as well, and, and progressing up through the different you areas of responsibility.

And the choice story is very much similar. I think that that background gave me a really good platform to understand the needs of owners moving into a franchise organisation. So I feel like I can, I’ve got a reasonably sort, you know, good conduit. I’m a good conduit between the owner’s needs and the way they see things. Cos I worked for them for many, many years. And also you know, on the franchise or side of trying to deliver further enhancements to our value proposition that are gonna benefit our our owners, our franchisees essentially. So, and the Choice story is similar, I’ve had, you know, five or six different roles, you know, you know, in 21 years. I’ve been given responsibility increased responsibility along the way. So I guess if you break it down, there’s been moves and responsibilities every sort of four or five years, I suppose.

The set I’m in now, I’ve been in for, for just on 10 years. And I still find it, you know, a great challenge. I’m learning a lot and I’m inspired and motivated by the people that I’ve got working around me. That’s what sort of keeps me, you know, getting out of bed in the morning. I just, I love the team that I work with. I still, I learn a lot from them. I learn a lot from our franchisees, of course. And there’s still a lot for us to achieve. So so, and I’ve been very fortunate to have some great leaders both in my previous career, but also obviously now within Choice Hotels. And so I’ve been very lucky, I think with the leadership models, the leadership examples that I’ve been given that I can or been able to draw off. So that’s I feel really fortunate from that side of things.

Sarah Stowe (08:29):

It sounds you’ve described it as as very dynamic as you, you know, you mentioned beforehand, is there an element of loyalty in, in what you’re doing? Because I mean, a lot of people do make those moves anyway just cause they want something different, and I appreciate that you’re saying it’s, you know, it’s progressive roles. Yeah. But, but for some people, they just want to be in a different environment.

Trent Fraser (08:51):

Yeah. Look, my my Chinese Zodiac is the, the a dog, and I guess the dog is by nature quite loyal, so maybe there’s something in that. But no, I think as long as, for me, as long as I have felt challenged and that I’ve been growing and learning that’s what’s been, yeah, key for me in, in, in, in my career. So I’ve certainly felt that, you know, in, in my time with, with choice and and still plenty of challenge, you know, left ahead. So I’ve, I’ve never really, you know, needed to or felt the need to, to, to look up or to look outside. I think that as long as you’re being challenged and you feel like you’re growing and opportunities being presented, then I think that you know I’m really comfortable with, with the path that I’ve taken. It may, as I said, be a little bit unusual today, but there’s definitely a sense of, of loyalty there. I think there was probably some risk given to me, some risk taken on me maybe earlier in my career here with Choice, but I feel like I’ve, you know, delivered on, on the people there that gave me those opportunities. And I feel like yeah, we’ve still got a lot to achieve as well. So that’s what I’m looking forward to. Yeah, that’s for sure.

Sarah Stowe (09:59):

Now we tried to have this conversation earlier here in the week <laugh>, but technology definitely got the better of us, so it’s the joys of disruption. So I was wondering, let, let’s talk about data and disruption and online challenges in the hotel industry because it’s changed phenomenally, hasn’t it? I mean, it’s changed from when you and I were, were younger and how you booked holidays and what you did was completely different.

Trent Fraser (10:24):

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s, you know, one of the, the number one reasons why, you know, we want to talk to independent operators out there in the market, and that’s one of the main things we, you know, present to them. It’s an area of strength of ours. We’re able to navigate through the, the very complicated, increasingly complicated distribution network of how your rooms get you know, shared out into the market these days. And you’ve got to be very, very careful and you’ve got to be very strategic about how you go about doing that. The, the greatest value we can add to a hotel is by delivering increased bookings, directed a hotel rather than having hotels rely solely on third party operators that might come along with, you know, significantly high commissions as well. So that’s really the, the value that we deliver.

Our loyalty program plays a big role in that as well. So we need to make sure that we are engaging with our, our loyalty program members serving them off offers at the right time, at the right price, getting to know them, building a closer relationship on, I guess, feeling like we own that relationship with them, you know directly talking to them directly and really providing value for them in that, in that program. So that’s, you know probably the main, you know, advantages that we bring to the table in terms of a franchise partner is really being able to share our knowledge being up to date on all the changes, you know, in the distribution world and and putting a strategic plan in place for them. So they are maximising, you know, the sale of every particular room they’ve got in the hotel.

Sarah Stowe (12:09):

Do you, do you need to be disruptive yourselves?

Trent Fraser (12:11):

Oh, I think we, we absolutely do. I think we need to be aware of the disruptors, but also have an element of yeah, disruptive nature, you know our ourselves, it’s, it’s a competitive market for you know, a delivery of rooms into hotels, into, into all of our hotels. So we’ve got to make sure we are being as you know, as disruptive, as innovative as we possibly can to you know, make sure that we are front and centre when people go in and do a search for accommodation online. You know, how do we make sure that we are on that front page or at the top of the page for our customers to to make a booking?

Sarah Stowe (12:52):

What about sustainability? Because that seems to be an increasingly interesting element of, of hospitality. I mean, it’s affecting everybody, but it’s interesting how different brands are approaching that. I just wondered what Choice hotels approach is?

Trent Fraser (13:06):

Yeah, look, it, it certainly is the, the the requests that we receive throughout the year for contract contract pricing at our hotels. So they, these are the corporate travel bookers. They are now requesting or asking, you know, what initiatives do we have in place at, at particular hotels and what are we doing at a corporate level. So I think there’s a, there’s a wide range of interests from all parties. So, and then we’ve sort of, we’ve talked to our franchisees about, you know, some of the initiatives that, that we think you know, we should be rolling out and have rolled out. We did a, we did a network wide survey a couple of months ago just to get a baseline read on the good things that they are doing today. And there’s a lot of good things that the properties have already started doing.

We are mapping out a program now to introduce additional initiatives that we can add in. And not all of these are gonna cost money. They’re, they’re actually gonna be a potentially reduction in costs for our owners once they’re once they’re deployed and at a corporate level. We recently appointed in the US last year, a VP of ESG. So we’ll be taking some guidance and direction from from that team over in the US and you know, and, and deploying what makes sense for our hotels here locally. But it’s certainly something that our travel bookers and also our travellers, our customers, are wanting to know more about.

Sarah Stowe (14:38):

What else are they, what, what else do they look for? I mean, well, how, how have the guest expectations changed, do you think? Over the years?

Trent Fraser (14:46):

In sustainability or in terms of ESG?

Sarah Stowe (14:49):

Just generally.

Trent Fraser (14:50):

Yeah. Look, I, look, I think their, their initial expectation, their expectations still are around service, around people. So I think our, our focus now, well and truly out of Covid moving through, you know, the labour challenges we’ve had is to maintain our focus on, on training, on training and development at, at the hotel level. So that’s something that we’re involved with, we’re encouraging and working with our franchisees on. In terms of other expectations, I think that really they’re looking at what environmental elements that we deployed into hotels. So the reduction of soft plastics, for example. So moving from the smaller amenities into bulk amenities looking at how we recycle in the, in the rooms, looking at how we you know recycle or how we service the rooms In terms of housekeeping, a lot of hotels these days are moving to offering housekeeping on demand to customers as well.

The days of Covid, I think, have taught us that, you know, maybe customers are, are okay with not having people come in and service their room every day during a stay. They might opt to have it every second day or every third day. So I guess giving more power back to the customers is one thing that we’ve seen change post covid.

But I think the overarching you know, need and expectations still remains around around service technology is probably another point that today people travel with their own devices, they wish to stream their own content. So we’ve got to focus and remind all our operators of the importance of having really strong wifi and also being able to connect to a smart TV where they can stream or show their own content that they’ll be travelling with. So they’re probably some of the things that we’re working with our hotels on today.

Sarah Stowe (16:35):

Now, you recently reported a strong revenue rebound for Choice Hotels with room rates online and corporate bookings rising, I think, and 19 hotels opening in the Asia Pacific region, which is your realm. So what, what, what’s caused that and what can we expect to see over the next few years from, from Choice Hotels?

Trent Fraser (16:57):

Yeah, ook, most of that has come through the deliberate action we took during covid. And in particularly at the end of 2021 and into 2022, we knew that there would be a recovery, that the industry would come back. It was just a matter of when, it probably went on a little bit longer than we expected, but throughout that time, we retained all of our people, and importantly all of our sales and marketing people, we doubled down on our investment in both above the line marketing and below the line. We knew when borders opened up and people were able to, able to travel again that we needed to be, to be top of mind, and we needed to be you know in the spaces where they would look to, to book and look to, to organise their, their travel.

So we I think in 2022 compared to a lot of our competitors, and certainly to the online travel agencies where we continued our marketing efforts despite the recovery being, you know, a bit, as I said, a bit slower than what we thought. So I think that put us in really good stead for when things did open up. And we’ve, we feel like we’ve got a bit of a jump a jump ahead of certainly the online travel agencies and our competitors, and importantly, shifting a lot of that business that might have come to our hotels through other channels because of our actions and our involvement in the marketing space in the last sort of 18 months or so. A lot of that’s now coming through our channels direct to our hotels, which is the best sort of business that they can receive going through going through direct high yielding channels.

Sarah Stowe (18:33):

So are we going to see more growth more hotels opening up? Are we going to see any, any kind of new initiatives launched?

Trent Fraser (18:42):

Yeah, look, the future’s exciting. I think we, we we’ve recently, you know, revised our, our long-term plan, and the plan sees this region, you know, with 170 hotels in Australia and New Zealand, and close to 130 outside of those two countries in the Asia-Pacific broader region. So moving from sort of close to 300 hotels up to 500 hotels is the, is the plan over the next, you know, six or seven years. So that’s the, that’s the, the big the big goal sitting in front of us. We think that we can help a lot of independent operators still in Australia and New Zealand. We know that there’s only 50 per cent of all hotels over 30 rooms in Australia and New Zealand that have branded. So there’s a lot of properties that I think we can we can help, and especially if we think that, you know, there’ll be some sort of a tapering off in this incredible demand and recovery curve that we’ve been seeing. I think that’s the important time where you know, historically we’ve been very successful in growing is when people are sort of having second thoughts or wondering how they can maintain their success as a independent, you know, one-off operator.

Sarah Stowe (19:53):

I just want to switch, focus a little bit and talk about some of the sort of corporate social responsibility initiatives that you’ve been engaged with. So can you, can you tell us about Kids Undercover and, and as run from that, what you, it means corporate citizen?

Trent Fraser (20:11):

Yeah, look. Well what, what I love about any of you know, our partners charity partners that we get involved with is, I love the ability to have our team engaged and roll their sleeves up and participate. And what we loved about Kids Undercover is that you know, they, they build shelter, they build housing for at risk families. So literally in backyards of existing dwellings we were involved in several studio one and two bedroom studio builds where we were onsite with the builders, you know, doing all the sort of the runaround and their sort of their labouring work, if you like. But the exciting thing, over a week or two onsite we were able to hand the keys over to a family a worthy family that we were changing their lives.

You know, we’re providing accommodation for a young person that may have been at risk of, of leaving home or trying to, you know, move into a friend’s home or, or worse we’re able to provide funding and labor importantly to to execute those projects and walking away, seeing our investment come to life and the difference it would make in meeting those people. There’s no better feeling than, than having that, you know, having that experience. So we love that opportunity. We now do a bit of work with with, with Reach, which has a similar ability for our people to get involved in some of their wonderful work they do with young people. So we’ll continue to support organisations like that where I can also get our teams involved and get them closer to the partners and the people involved and really see the difference that we can make as an organisation.

So what does it mean to be a good corporate citizen? I think it means you know, absolutely giving back where you, wherever you possibly can. And I think for our hotels, it’s also making sure you engage in the local community, the local area. We want our, all of our franchisees to be, you know, the go-to venue for any events that the local sporting clubs have, the local rotary clubs and those sort of things. We want our hotels to be the, the the top of mind venue for any of those sort of organisations. So you see a lot of our properties supporting local businesses, local organisations local sporting clubs like that. And I think that’s really important to be engaged with the local community very strongly.

Sarah Stowe (22:41):

And what about the Oxfam Trail Walker? The challenge that you did, what did you get out of that experience?

Trent Fraser (22:46):

Besides a lot of aches and pain,

Sarah Stowe (22:48):

Sore feet

Trent Fraser (22:49):

<Laugh>, and a lot of blisters, that, that was a wonderful experience that really was an incredible well, you know, 28, 32 hours I think did it a couple of times. And we’ve sort of came in around that sort of range. And you go through all sorts of different emotions and different discussions with the four person team that you’re in. You know, it was a 100 kilometres nonstop and we learned a lot more about each other. I think we learned a lot more about about ourselves, that’s for sure. And I think importantly, you know, it wasn’t just the event, but it was the significant training and the lead up and the preparation that we had to do to be ready for that event. So the lessons there were, you know, my view and my team know this, that’s for sure.

You know, you can never over over prepare for events like that, or you can never over prepare for any major event. Whatever you’re involved in, it’s, I think preparation is the key. And I think, you know, the risk of failure comes about because there’s a lack of preparation somewhere along the way a lot of the time. So I remember back to the early mornings and the, you know, many, many kilometres we did as a team in training for the event that actually made the event a little bit easier than what otherwise would’ve been had we not done all that preparatory work in the lead up to it. And I think there’s a lot of parallels, as I said there between that and some of the experiences we have in, in business.

Sarah Stowe (24:16):

Oh, and picking up on that, I mean, how do you face up to challenges personally and, and failures? Cause I’m assuming that along the way there have been some, doesn’t look like it from the resume, but there must have been something along the way that didn’t go quite right,

Trent Fraser (24:29):

<Laugh>? Yeah. Well, there’s, there’s been a couple recently, but I think, I think there always is. I think, I think that what, you know, if you’re not, you’re probably not trying hard enough. I think that and, and I think as a leader, I, you know, I think early days as a young leader maybe we’re a bit more uncomfortable with that. We’re, you know, we’re, we’re, we probably think as a young leader or a new CEO that, you know, you are not supposed to or you’re not allowed to make mistakes or there’s a tremendous weakness in making mistakes. I think what you learn over time is to be more comfortable making mistakes. You know, you want to avoid them obviously at all costs, but you are, there’s a, there’s a level of vulnerability that comes with calling out mistakes and calling out failures and sharing them and debriefing on them with, with your team.

And I think that’s probably the biggest takeout for me as I’ve become more comfortable with that. I think I’ve been able to readily recognise those, you know, both you know, from a personal attributes point of view, the areas that I need to improve, but also at times when we haven’t made the right decision or, or what have you, being, being able to sort of sit down and analyse and, and really look ourselves in the face and saying, we could probably have done it differently.

So hopefully we’re limiting those and we are doing far fewer those than, than what we did in the past. But and I think that’s why today with leadership, you know, the days of the sort of lone wolf you know, CEO with all the charisma are, are gone. I think that’s really difficult to sustain today. I think it’s more around a far more collaborative style relying on the experts around you, which again, probably goes to the point of reducing risk of, of failures because you’ve got more opinions and you’ve got, you know, hopefully a, a good diverse group around you that can, that can help call them out or call risks out, you know, before they may occur. So I think that’s, that’s key for sure.

Sarah Stowe (26:23):

Do you think business is something that, that you learn or, or is it a mindset?

Trent Fraser (26:28):

I think it’s a little bit of both, but I think increasingly today it’s a lifestyle. You know, I think the, the lines of of who we are as a, you know, individual at work and who we are as an individual at out of work are more blurred than ever. They really have to be one and the same. And I think, you know, there’s a lot of talk about authenticity, and I think that’s what I’ve learned, you know, over my time in this chair is that you know, you are, you are a product of your life story and your journey, and that shapes us as individuals, as human beings. Well, that also shapes us as leaders. So I think the, there is really no crossover for me, or no separation, I should say. So I think it’s, it’s got to be a lifestyle.

I think, and I’ve talked to my team about this a lot, I think they’re all, my team are all leaders in one way or another, whether it’s through parents, through a local organisation they’re involved with, through a team sport that they play, or indeed, in our business, in our work, in our company, they all have a leadership role at some point. So I look at our team as a group of leaders and that’s, you know, that cuts across what they do it both in and outside of the, the, the the workplace.

Sarah Stowe (27:47):

What would be the one piece of advice you would give them or any other young career executive?

Trent Fraser (27:53):

Yeah, I think in early leadership roles, you probably think it’s all about you and you have to be you have to be the strong, sort of infallible leader that can’t show weakness. But I think increasingly what you learn and what eventually, and if I could you know, encourage them to try and grab onto this earlier rather than later, it’s really all about everybody else. When you’re a leader, that’s the, that’s the key. It’s so much less about you at that point in time. It’s all about everybody else and how you manage, support and grow them. That’ll be, you know the legacy that you leave as a leader is, is the team that you build up around you. And I say to my team, look, I, I prefer to make as fewer decisions as I possibly can each week in the business cos I want them to be you know, putting their opinions and their decisions forward.

And I’ve got the lecture at any point in time in pulling those up and changing them if I wish. But you know, I want them to be learning through, presenting me with their thoughts, their opinions and supporting them on those, you know, if we’ve got alignment. So that’s so that’s probably the main advice I would I would give and, and to make sure you just build a good group of diverse people around you, as I mentioned earlier. I think that’s, that is the key, you know that is the key to have people different to you. We, we can easily fall on the trap of employing hiring people that are like us around us, but we’ve really got to be disciplined in having a, a different group around that table at, at whatever level you are to to support you and to add in and fill in the gaps where you may need some support, some help.

Sarah Stowe (29:40):

What you still want to achieve at Choice Hotels?

Trent Fraser (29:43):

Oh, so much <laugh>, we we’ve got, we’ve got a lot of work to do in our growth plans. As I said earlier, we’ve got, I think, a lot of scope for for expansion both here and, and, and throughout the Asia-Pacific region. There’s still a lot of markets we don’t have a presence in today, and I see that over the longer term as being something very exciting to offer for our you know, our customers here and, and from our international customers. So we’ve really got to be you know, putting all of our efforts in our, our focus on that in the shorter term the ESG rollout program will be you know an important project for us over the next 12 months or so when our customers want it, our teams want it and we know it’s important for the environment, obviously.

And then I think over and above that for me I need to be making sure that I’ve built a strong leadership team around me and that we’ve carefully discussed, you know, succession plans for all levels in the organisation and make sure that we are supporting and developing our, our high potential can talent within the organisation and making sure that we understand what that looks like going forward for the future. So that’s really looking at the longer term health of the business, continuity of the business is making sure that we are retaining and developing talent to take on, you know, more challenges, more responsibilities in the future.

Sarah Stowe (31:16):

Sounds like you’ve got a lot of work ahead of you, which you love <laugh> by the sounds of it. Very last question, very frivolous. What’s your favorite holiday destination and why?

Trent Fraser (31:28):

Yeah, look gee a number of places come to mind, but I, I think for me, I’ve got three daughters and my wife and anywhere we end up traveling together is a wonderful, exciting adventure for all of us. So we’ve been fortunate to travel around some lovely places both here in Australia and a couple of times internationally. But probably a standout, it was only my wife and I, but several years ago we had the opportunity to go to the jazz fest in New Orleans, which was an amazing few days with some friends that we met up with over there. And that was an incredible experience and some wonderful memories seeing that city come to life with all things music. So that’s probably a standout. But as I said, anytime we can get to way, get together and go away as a family is a, is a highlight for me, that’s for sure.

Sarah Stowe (32:27):

Trent, thank you so much for spending the time to chat about life and business. It’s been fantastic.

Trent Fraser (32:33):

Pleasure, Sarah, thank you very much for the opportunity.