Welcome to Spill the Biz. I’m Sarah Stowe. Head editor at inside franchise business. Join me as we have candid conversations with leading entrepreneurs and business owners behind some of the world’s most impressive franchise brands. At Inside Franchise Business we acknowledge the traditional owners of country throughout Australia, repair respects to elders of past and present.
Sarah (00:30):
Today I am chatting with David Burness, CEO of Domino’s Australia in New Zealand. Now, while David has only been in the hot seat for six months, he’s no stranger to the global pizza brand. He has been one of the longest standing and most successful franchisees in the chain. David started in the pizza industry back in 1991, and before buying his first franchise with Domino’s in 1995, he had been a store manager and operations trainer.
He built up his business to seven stores in Brisbane and Melbourne before selling them in 2006 to serve as the chief operating officer for the then newly acquired Domino’s, Netherlands business, one of 10 country operations run by Domino’s Australia New Zealand’s parent company Domino’s Pizza Enterprises.
Since he’s returned to Australia, David has once again built a seven store business this time centered on the Sunshine Coast. This is a family affair with wife, Melissa and therefore children, all working in the business. David is one of the most awarded franchisees in the Domino’s system with accolades including franchisee of the year, highest average sales and a franchisee development ward.
In this podcast, we talk about small business and the role of leadership and whether business is a mindset. We also discuss the Domino’s brand, how important technology is to the chain and whether the pizza brand now has an unassailable position in the Australian marketplace.
Sarah (01:58):
So David welcome. It’s, it’s lovely to chat today. Um, and I wanted to start out with a, a couple of comments that you’ve made about being in business. You’ve previously said, “I teach every one of our new team members that they, their most important job is to put a smile on our customer’s faces. If we can do that and give them great experiences every time there’s nothing we can’t achieve.” Another quote from you, “Customers will like you, if you deliver high quality meals at an affordable price, but they’ll love you for being a true member of the community”. Can you, can you talk a bit about this perspective and I wonder whether it’s grounded in your experience as a small business owner.
David (02:39):
Yeah, look, we, um, you know, I, I know that, um, you know, if you run a really good business operationally, you’ll get loyalty from your customers, you know, because they, they really like what you do as a business, but if you’re a business that gives back to your community in, in any sort of way, whether it’s through sponsorship, whether it’s through helping, then, you know, they’ll love you for doing that. And, um, you know, it for me though, it’s important that when you’re doing that as a small business owner, that, um, you can’t fake that you you’ve got to do it because it’s really in your heart and in your, in your own values.
One of the, one of the Domino’s values is that, um, we do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do> Now, I mean, for me as a franchisee, you know, that really rang true with me and I, I think I probably did that, you know, long before that was, it was a Domino’s value. And, um, and, and we know that if you, if you do that, then you know, the community will give back to you and it’s really good for business, but I don’t think you can do it just because it’s good for business. You’ve gotta do it because you just feel as though it’s something you wanna do. I at, at one stage in, um, in my business, I wrote, you know, what my ‘whys’ were and, uh, and, and a part of my, my why for being in business was that I wanted to be a good member of the community and wanted to be able to give back. And, you know, if, if that’s what your why for being in business is, but it’s really easy to do because, you know, you, you feel great about doing it. And the reality is, you know, we, we know that it’s good for business, but I don’t think that can be your driver for doing it. It’s gotta be something that you just, you, you want to do because you wanna live that value.
Sarah (04:19):
And how does that value translate from being a small business owner to being a CEO? I think there’s something like 19,000 Domino’s employees across the, the country in terms of the network, it’s a massive business, massive operation. Heading that up, can you, do you take the same values? Do you, how, how does it translate into, you know, at scale?
David (04:40):
Yes, absolutely. I mean, we, uh, you know, we we’ve, we’ve got a set of values as a brand in Australia and New Zealand, and one of those values is exactly that to, um, do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do. Um, another one of our values is invest to create devotion. So, um, you know, every franchisee is, is encouraged to, to live those values.
And, and for me, what I try and do, you know, one of, one of the things that I, I want to do in this role now is to, you know, to try and help franchisees to achieve the same sort of success that I had in, in my business, from, you know, from a, from a sales and a profit point of view. And, you know, it’s about me trying to communicate what are the things that, that I think I did in my business that, that created that success and, uh, enable other franchisees to, you know, to, to take elements of that model, but, and not just from my stores, but there’s other franchisees out there who are getting great results. So one of the beauties of franchising is that you are within a network of people who are doing the same thing as you, and there’ll always be somebody who’s executing something, some part of the business better than what you are. So we really encourage franchisees to connect and find out who’s doing great things and, and try and copy each other. That’s the benefits of franchising. So, um, but within our business, yeah, certainly we, uh, that that’s one of the, the wider businesses values.
Sarah (06:03):
You’re not the first CEO of Domino’s in Australia to have worked so long within the business and have been a franchisee. Is there, is there something particular about Domino’s that kind of makes that a, not an easy path, but, but a path that’s perhaps more accessible than in other businesses, other franchise chains?
David (06:23):
Yes. It’s a, it’s a path well-worn within… So, within the Domino’s business, uh, the Australian business is, is owned by a company called DPE, Domino’s Pizza Enterprises, and DPE operates the, uh, the Domino’s brand across 10 countries. And, uh, it, it’s not necessarily the case in all Domino’s markets around the world, but certainly within the DPE business, it’s very common that, uh, CEOs have come out of being a franchisee.
And, um, you know, I think that’s the case in our business because, you know, our global CEO, Don Meij, I mean, he started as a franchisee himself. And I think he understands that franchisees view the business in a certain way, because, you know, you’ve, they’ve had to be entrepreneurial as a successful franchisee. And, uh, they, generally they’re people who have been very customer focused as a franchisee and, and at every level of the business and certainly through to a CEO level, you know, when we are making customer centric decisions, our business goes a whole lot better. And if you’ve been a successful franchisee and been able to grow your sales, um, you know, you’ve, you’ve generally shown that that’s the way you approach the business is through the, through a customer lens. So I, I think that’s why, and also, obviously as a, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, you, you bring a certain mindset with you and, you know, that will, it’s important that that mindset flows through to the, the top of the business.
Sarah (07:49):
I’m really interested that you talked about mindset there because I, I just wonder what your perspective is on business. Do you think it, do you think it’s instinctive, or do you think it’s a mindset that you kind of learn? Where, what would your view be on that?
David (08:04):
I think it, it’s a, it’s a little bit of both. Um, but it’s something that certainly can be learned. Um, in fact, one of the mindsets for me, I mean, you know, I, you know, I, I think that’s a really important conversation around mindset. And I think that to, you know, that every individual should have a growth mindset, both for themselves, for their team and for their business.
And so, you know, what that means is that you are someone who’s invested in growing your own wisdom and your own understanding, be it of, you know, just your, your, your business, uh, but also your, you know, your understanding of people. And, um, so, you know, you’ll, as, as a new franchise, and a younger, um, business leader, you’ll have a certain understanding of the world. And, um, you know, I think those that, that go on to grow their business and take on bigger roles, they’ve gotta be someone who’s really committed to their own personal growth and that, and probably passionate about growing, um, the abilities of those around them as well.
Sarah (09:06):
So I think that’s something that you’ve been quite keen on doing, isn’t it sort of, you know, nurturing, nurturing, um, your staff as franchisees, or perhaps even within the, the, the greater business cause I know you’ve had other roles, um, and, and some of those have gone on to become franchisees in their own, right. Is that something that’s been important to you that, that nurturing of new talent, and, and as you say, kind of share, I guess, sharing that growth mindset and encouraging that perspective on life?
David (09:36):
Very much so I’m very passionate about that. And, um, you know, I, I’ve always said that as a, as a franchisee in our business, that we have a responsibility to grow other franchisees and pass on the opportunity that we were given. And, um, you know, one of the, one of my philosophies in my business was always that, um, everybody’s responsibility is to make those around them better than them, you know? And what that means is that, you know, say, say, perhaps you’re a store manager and, you know, if you have a, have a philosophy that things run better when I’m there. And if, if, you know, if I do the, the roster or I do the stock order, or I do whatever is the task and it’s best when I do it, you know, I would always say to store managers, well, that’s not a sign of success to me. So I, I, I, you know, if you’re, if you’re telling me that, I, I hope you’re not telling me that thinking that that deserves praise because your obligation is that you coach everybody around you to be better than you. And when that’s the case, that’s what true success looks like for you. And, and for me, you know, that that mindset should flow through to every level of the business.
Sarah (10:41):
So does that mean that managers essentially are coaches and trainers?
David (10:44):
Yes, absolutely. In fact, you know, if we could change the, the name on the, the title on the name badge to read coach instead of manager, um, it’s, it’s, I think that would be, uh, a better description of what a, a manager should be.
Sarah (11:00):
And does that apply to, to leadership too? I mean, is there, is there a difference, is it just that that’s a, that’s a role in leadership is a, an, um, not an activity, I’m trying to think what the right word is. Um, well, I suppose leadership’s a mindset again, isn’t, it, it, and it doesn’t matter what your position is, doesn’t matter what your role is, people can show leadership at all, all kinds of levels. Um…
David (11:23):
Yeah, look, I, I think that, I mean, there’s some roles where, you know, you are the, the nature of the people that report into you. They may be, um, a little more junior and they’re, you know, their, their role is one of learning. And in that role, you’re likely to be more of a coach, but I think at every level of leadership that, uh, that, you know, people should have a, a coaching mindset and, you know, and, and the other thing I think for leadership, I mean, there’s, there’s very different styles of leadership. Every individual will bring their own style.
But I mean, for, for me, there’s a couple of things that are common, um, that, that all leaders should have. And one is, uh, that they, you know, they should be optimistic and enthusiastic about situations. I mean, you know, some people will see the, the problem in an opportunity and some people will always look for the opportunity in a problem. And, you know, regardless of your style, I think what that does is if you are someone who’s just optimistic and you are always seeing, you know, where the chance or the opportunity is here in, in, in this problem, then that adds energy to those around you and it’ll generally lift the group to, to see the situation the same way.
So, so for me, that optimism and that enthusiasm are, are things that are, regardless of your, your personal style, um, are, are really important in leadership.
Sarah (12:47):
So is that something that you can kind of, you know, fake it till you make it? I mean, that that’s, is that something, if you’re not naturally optimistic and enthusiastic, and you are that person that, that, that sees all the red flags going up immediately, can you unlearn that, genuinely? Can you actually adopt that or, or is it something that’s N not going to come across as authentic?
David (13:07):
I, I think for, for me, you’ve got to, um, accept that, you know, don’t do it blindly. You don’t do it naively when, when someone asks you that, uh, look, you are just being unrealistic here. And, um, you know, you’re being naïve and, uh, you know, the answer to that is I understand there’s a challenge here right now. And you know, me saying that we are gonna, and being really optimistic about the outcome. I’m not doing that through naivety. I’m very consciously doing that because I know that that’s going to get it better outcomes.
I mean, if I look at any situation and, you know, there will be problems, let’s not ignore the problems, but let’s look at well, what would, what would be an outcome, a great outcome if we can solve that problem and how good is that going to be? That’s a conscious decision you can make, is to look at what’s the, uh, potential outcome verse focusing on what the problem is, and you know, how bad the outcome will be if that goes wrong, so I think it’s a conscious decision. And for me personally, I like to just admit and identify that I am gonna look for the op, the opportunity here. And, um, yeah, so I think it is a conscious decision that, um, that you can make.
Sarah (14:20):
That, that works in terms of, um, adversity and, and seeing the best in the situation is that. Is that a similar approach that you can take with failure? So if something doesn’t work out when it could be something in your personal life, it could be something in business that you’ve, you know, you’ve looked for, that the teams worked for, it hasn’t succeeded, it’s, it’s been an outright failure. What other lessons do you take from that? Is it, is it just the same that it’s like, well, we look for the opportunities, or, I mean, how, how do you handle those things personally? Do you get hit by those in, instances of, of failure?
David (14:54):
Yeah. Yeah. Look, I, I, I think a couple of things, I mean, if we’re talking about adversity, um, I heard a really good quote once it’s from Winston Churchill, actually. And, um, and Winston Churchill said that, you know, if you are, if you’re walking through hell, just keep walking. So sometimes when you’re facing real adversity, there’s a, you know, there’s a, there can be a, a tendency to kind of stop and ponder and wallow in, in, uh, in how bad things are. I mean, I’ve always found that, you know, when dealing with adversity, the best thing is to, to do something. So, you know, rather than, than wallow too much in what the problem is, just get up, and there’s always something you can do and just take an action. And then quite often that one action will lead to another action. And, you know, as Winston Churchill said, just keep walking. Before, you know, it you’ve taken that one step has turned into five steps and 10 steps, and you’ve actually started to, you know, get a bit of, um, a bit of momentum in what you’re trying to do.
Sarah (15:57):
Now. The we’ve had a lot of adversity, I mean, worldwide, and, and, um, it doesn’t seem to be improving at the moment. There’s certainly a lot of things that, that can concern us all. On a business front, what, for a small business owner, what do you think are the, are the main challenges for them at the moment?
David (16:15):
Yeah, look, I mean, you know, I guess when you’ve been in business long enough, you, um, you, you, you start to realise that at any point in time, there is always something you could find to point at and say, well, things aren’t going well at the moment because of that. And it’ll be an outside factor, whether it’s the government or the economy or the weather, or the, the, the market that you’re in.
For me, the most important thing to do is to take responsibility for the situation and say that, you know, no matter what’s gonna happen here, I’m gonna be responsible for the outcome. And, and, and the, the benefit of that is that then you are in control, as soon as you, you say that, you know, whatever is happening in my business or in my life at the moment that it’s the, you know, something other than me will be the determiner of, of the outcome you’ve lost control. Right. Whereas when you say that I am in control of the outcome, then you’ve got the, you know, the, the ability to be able to change that. So that then gives you, you know, that, that energy I was talking about to, to go and take that first step, which, you know, leads to a second and a third and a, and a tenth step.
Sarah (17:33):
Now, if we, if we just kind of head back a bit to, towards Domino’s itself and, and talk around the brand a little bit, I mean, it’s become a business that has, um, as, um, Don Meij has famously said, you know, it’s a tech business, and he’s certainly at the, at the sort of group level, certainly driven kind of technology, um, in the business in the last few years. And I wonder how that compares now on a global market with other innovations and fast food and, and where, where the next idea comes from. Where does Domino’s look for the next idea?
David (18:09):
Yeah, look, I I’ve, I’ve heard that quote, um, that, that Domino’s is a technology company, and I’m not sure that Don actually said that he he’s he’s. He said to me that, uh, I’ve been quoted on that a number of times. And, and I dunno that I said, I think he, you know, he said that we invest a lot in technology and it’ll be an important part of our business, but, um…And, and look, there’s no doubt that, you know, we were early innovators on a lot of technology and, um, you know, but that, it, it, it just never stops as always somebody else that’s looking to, you know, whether it’s, uh, an app or a, um, you know, something that, that there’s been a lot of, particularly in the food delivery business, um, there’s been a lot of people that have invested in technology over the last five years so…
Look, we just continue to, to, if we are developing technology, I, I think an important thing is to ask yourself, well, what’s the benefit to the customer in doing this? And if it’s something that’s going to enhance the customer’s experience, then that’s good technology to be investing in. And, and that’s probably a, a question that we always ask ourselves.
Sarah (19:17):
And in terms of Domino’s itself, and it’s kind of position in the market, there was a, an IBISWorld report. Um, last year, I think that estimated the share of market for Domino’s of the pizza market was more than 30 per cent, which is at least 20 per cent more than your, nor your nearest competitor. How has the business reached this? And do you think now that that’s an unassailable position?
David (19:41):
Uh, you broke up a little bit there, Sarah, but I think you said that, uh, Domino’s got to over 30 percent market.
Sarah (19:47):
Ah, that Domino’s, Domino’s has, um, has got 20 per cent estimated to have 20 per cent more market share than the competitors than any one competitor. Um, and I’m just interested in, in your thoughts about how it’s got to that position. Is it just due to technology and innovation, and also, do you think now that, that the brand has an unassailable position in the Australian
David (20:11):
Market? Yeah. Look, it’s an interesting question. Um, I would never say that it’s unassailable because I was here when we were number three and we were a very distant number three and there was another brand that was a very dominant number one. And, uh, and I think at the time that, you know, that that brand probably made the mistake of thinking that we were so small and they were so dominant that, um, whatever we did, you know, that we, we, we couldn’t close that gap.
And, you know, I think the, the thing for us we’ve learned is that even though we now are a dominant number, number one brand, as far as market share goes, that it’s important that we always, you know, behave like a hungry number two. And that means just being fanatical about the customer. So anything we do, we need to make that decision through the lens of is this good for the customer and, uh, will it make it easier for the customer? Does it give them great value? And, you know, we’ve gotta continually be putting that message through the, through the system.
And hopefully, you know, I think you, you mentioned 20,000 in, you know, team members in the business. Well, you know, imagine if 20,000 people made every decision through the customer lens, well, our business will go well and we’ll probably have a large share of customer, um, share if we’re making decisions that are based around the customer and, and everybody in our business needs to be on that same page. Um, if we’re gonna do that.
Sarah (21:44):
And so, um, just to sort of end up, where do you see Domino’s, um, going over the next kind of couple of years, what can we expect to see? Is it, is it more of the same, or will there be new and exciting things happening? Will there be differences in delivery? What, what’s, what’s going to be the hot news.
David (22:05):
Yeah, we think that, um, you know, we, we talk about something called the age of delivery and, um, you know, we, we, we, we kind of knew that that was coming that, um, you know, ’cos people would be looking for convenience certainly as, as life gets busier. Um, you know, particularly in Metro areas, you know, in, in the larger cities, people are looking for convenience and, um, you know, what’s happened in the last, uh, two years is that we’ve, Covid that age of delivery has probably become forward a little bit where people were, you know, we’re forced to be at home.
And I think that the market has understood that you can actually have a really good dining experience at home. You can, you can have the, you know, the comfort of that home that you’ve invested in to create somewhere that you really like to be, that you can have a really good dining experience in the home. So we think that delivery will continue.
Sarah (23:00):
Well, look, David, it’s been really lovely to chat and, uh, thank you for your insights. Um, both personal on business and on Domino’s itself, it’s, it’s been, uh, delight to chat. Thank you.
Sarah (23:16):
Thanks again for listening to Spill the Biz. Don’t forget to subscribe. And if this podcast has spiked your interest in the world of franchising, make sure you check out our website insidefranchisebusiness.com.au for more great info and tips on how to get started.
Sarah (00:04):
Welcome to Spill the Biz. I’m Sarah Stowe. Head editor at inside franchise business. Join me as we have candid conversations with leading entrepreneurs and business owners behind some of the world’s most impressive franchise brands. At Inside Franchise Business we acknowledge the traditional owners of country throughout Australia, repair respects to elders of past and present.
Sarah (00:30):
Today I am chatting with David Burness, CEO of Domino’s Australia in New Zealand. Now, while David has only been in the hot seat for six months, he’s no stranger to the global pizza brand. He has been one of the longest standing and most successful franchisees in the chain. David started in the pizza industry back in 1991, and before buying his first franchise with Domino’s in 1995, he had been a store manager and operations trainer.
He built up his business to seven stores in Brisbane and Melbourne before selling them in 2006 to serve as the chief operating officer for the then newly acquired Domino’s, Netherlands business, one of 10 country operations run by Domino’s Australia New Zealand’s parent company Domino’s Pizza Enterprises.
Since he’s returned to Australia, David has once again, built a seven store business this time centered on the Sunshine Coast. This is a family affair with wife, Melissa and therefore children, all working in the business. David is one of the most awarded franchisees in the Domino’s system with accolades including franchisee of the year, highest average sales and a franchisee development ward.
In this podcast, we talk about small business and the role of leadership and whether business is a mindset. We also discuss the Domino’s brand, how important technology is to the chain and whether the pizza brand now has an unassailable position in the Australian marketplace.
Sarah (01:58):
So David welcome. It’s, it’s lovely to chat today. Um, and I wanted to start out with a, a couple of comments that you’ve made about being in business. You’ve previously said, “I teach every one of our new team members that they, their most important job is to put a smile on our customer’s faces. If we can do that and give them great experiences every time there’s nothing we can’t achieve.” Another quote from you, “Customers will like you, if you deliver high quality meals at an affordable price, but they’ll love you for being a true member of the community”. Can you, can you talk a bit about this perspective and I wonder whether it’s grounded in your experience as a small business owner.
David (02:39):
Yeah, look, we, um, you know, I, I know that, um, you know, if you run a really good business operationally, you’ll get loyalty from your customers, you know, because they, they really like what you do as a business, but if you’re a business that gives back to your community in, in any sort of way, whether it’s through sponsorship, whether it’s through helping, then, you know, they’ll love you for doing that. And, um, you know, it for me though, it’s important that when you’re doing that as a small business owner, that, um, you can’t fake that you you’ve got to do it because it’s really in your heart and in your, in your own values.
One of the, one of the Domino’s values is that, um, we do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do> Now, I mean, for me as a franchisee, you know, that really rang true with me and I, I think I probably did that, you know, long before that was, it was a Domino’s value. And, um, and, and we know that if you, if you do that, then you know, the community will give back to you and it’s really good for business, but I don’t think you can do it just because it’s good for business. You’ve gotta do it because you just feel as though it’s something you wanna do. I at, at one stage in, um, in my business, I wrote, you know, what my ‘whys’ were and, uh, and, and a part of my, my why for being in business was that I wanted to be a good member of the community and wanted to be able to give back. And, you know, if, if that’s what your why for being in business is, but it’s really easy to do because, you know, you, you feel great about doing it. And the reality is, you know, we, we know that it’s good for business, but I don’t think that can be your driver for doing it. It’s gotta be something that you just, you, you want to do because you wanna live that value.
Sarah (04:19):
And how does that value translate from being a small business owner to being a CEO? I think there’s something like 19,000 Domino’s employees across the, the country in terms of the network, it’s a massive business, massive operation. Heading that up, can you, do you take the same values? Do you, how, how does it translate into, you know, at scale?
David (04:40):
Yes, absolutely. I mean, we, uh, you know, we we’ve, we’ve got a set of values as a brand in Australia and New Zealand, and one of those values is exactly that to, um, do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do. Um, another one of our values is invest to create devotion. So, um, you know, every franchisee is, is encouraged to, to live those values.
And, and for me, what I try and do, you know, one of, one of the things that I, I want to do in this role now is to, you know, to try and help franchisees to achieve the same sort of success that I had in, in my business, from, you know, from a, from a sales and a profit point of view. And, you know, it’s about me trying to communicate what are the things that, that I think I did in my business that, that created that success and, uh, enable other franchisees to, you know, to, to take elements of that model, but, and not just from my stores, but there’s other franchisees out there who are getting great results. So one of the beauties of franchising is that you are within a network of people who are doing the same thing as you, and there’ll always be somebody who’s executing something, some part of the business better than what you are. So we really encourage franchisees to connect and find out who’s doing great things and, and try and copy each other. That’s the benefits of franchising. So, um, but within our business, yeah, certainly we, uh, that that’s one of the, the wider businesses values.
Sarah (06:03):
You’re not the first CEO of Domino’s in Australia to have worked so long within the business and have been a franchisee. Is there, is there something particular about Domino’s that kind of makes that a, not an easy path, but, but a path that’s perhaps more accessible than in other businesses, other franchise chains?
David (06:23):
Yes. It’s a, it’s a path well-worn within… So, within the Domino’s business, uh, the Australian business is, is owned by a company called DPE, Domino’s Pizza Enterprises, and DPE operates the, uh, the Domino’s brand across 10 countries. And, uh, it, it’s not necessarily the case in all Domino’s markets around the world, but certainly within the DPE business, it’s very common that, uh, CEOs have come out of being a franchisee.
And, um, you know, I think that’s the case in our business because, you know, our global CEO, Don Meij, I mean, he started as a franchisee himself. And I think he understands that franchisees view the business in a certain way, because, you know, you’ve, they’ve had to be entrepreneurial as a successful franchisee. And, uh, they, generally they’re people who have been very customer focused as a franchisee and, and at every level of the business and certainly through to a CEO level, you know, when we are making customer centric decisions, our business goes a whole lot better. And if you’ve been a successful franchisee and been able to grow your sales, um, you know, you’ve, you’ve generally shown that that’s the way you approach the business is through the, through a customer lens. So I, I think that’s why, and also, obviously as a, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, you, you bring a certain mindset with you and, you know, that will, it’s important that that mindset flows through to the, the top of the business.
Sarah (07:49):
I’m really interested that you talked about mindset there because I, I just wonder what your perspective is on business. Do you think it, do you think it’s instinctive, or do you think it’s a mindset that you kind of learn? Where, what would your view be on that?
David (08:04):
I think it, it’s a, it’s a little bit of both. Um, but it’s something that certainly can be learned. Um, in fact, one of the mindsets for me, I mean, you know, I, you know, I, I think that’s a really important conversation around mindset. And I think that to, you know, that every individual should have a growth mindset, both for themselves, for their team and for their business.
And so, you know, what that means is that you are someone who’s invested in growing your own wisdom and your own understanding, be it of, you know, just your, your, your business, uh, but also your, you know, your understanding of people. And, um, so, you know, you’ll, as, as a new franchise, and a younger, um, business leader, you’ll have a certain understanding of the world. And, um, you know, I think those that, that go on to grow their business and take on bigger roles, they’ve gotta be someone who’s really committed to their own personal growth and that, and probably passionate about growing, um, the abilities of those around them as well.
Sarah (09:06):
So I think that’s something that you’ve been quite keen on doing, isn’t it sort of, you know, nurturing, nurturing, um, your staff as franchisees, or perhaps even within the, the, the greater business cause I know you’ve had other roles, um, and, and some of those have gone on to become franchisees in their own, right. Is that something that’s been important to you that, that nurturing of new talent, and, and as you say, kind of share, I guess, sharing that growth mindset and encouraging that perspective on life?
David (09:36):
Very much so I’m very passionate about that. And, um, you know, I, I’ve always said that as a, as a franchisee in our business, that we have a responsibility to grow other franchisees and pass on the opportunity that we were given. And, um, you know, one of the, one of my philosophies in my business was always that, um, everybody’s responsibility is to make those around them better than them, you know? And what that means is that, you know, say, say, perhaps you’re a store manager and, you know, if you have a, have a philosophy that things run better when I’m there. And if, if, you know, if I do the, the roster or I do the stock order, or I do whatever is the task and it’s best when I do it, you know, I would always say to store managers, well, that’s not a sign of success to me. So I, I, I, you know, if you’re, if you’re telling me that, I, I hope you’re not telling me that thinking that that deserves praise because your obligation is that you coach everybody around you to be better than you. And when that’s the case, that’s what true success looks like for you. And, and for me, you know, that that mindset should flow through to every level of the business.
Sarah (10:41):
So does that mean that managers essentially are coaches and trainers?
David (10:44):
Yes, absolutely. In fact, you know, if we could change the, the name on the, the title on the name badge to read coach instead of manager, um, it’s, it’s, I think that would be, uh, a better description of what a, a manager should be.
Sarah (11:00):
And does that apply to, to leadership too? I mean, is there, is there a difference, is it just that that’s a, that’s a role in leadership is a, an, um, not an activity, I’m trying to think what the right word is. Um, well, I suppose leadership’s a mindset again, isn’t, it, it, and it doesn’t matter what your position is, doesn’t matter what your role is, people can show leadership at all, all kinds of levels. Um…
David (11:23):
Yeah, look, I, I think that, I mean, there’s some roles where, you know, you are the, the nature of the people that report into you. They may be, um, a little more junior and they’re, you know, their, their role is one of learning. And in that role, you’re likely to be more of a coach, but I think at every level of leadership that, uh, that, you know, people should have a, a coaching mindset and, you know, and, and the other thing I think for leadership, I mean, there’s, there’s very different styles of leadership. Every individual will bring their own style.
But I mean, for, for me, there’s a couple of things that are common, um, that, that all leaders should have. And one is, uh, that they, you know, they should be optimistic and enthusiastic about situations. I mean, you know, some people will see the, the problem in an opportunity and some people will always look for the opportunity in a problem. And, you know, regardless of your style, I think what that does is if you are someone who’s just optimistic and you are always seeing, you know, where the chance or the opportunity is here in, in, in this problem, then that adds energy to those around you and it’ll generally lift the group to, to see the situation the same way.
So, so for me, that optimism and that enthusiasm are, are things that are, regardless of your, your personal style, um, are, are really important in leadership.
Sarah (12:47):
So is that something that you can kind of, you know, fake it till you make it? I mean, that that’s, is that something, if you’re not naturally optimistic and enthusiastic, and you are that person that, that, that sees all the red flags going up immediately, can you unlearn that, genuinely? Can you actually adopt that or, or is it something that’s N not going to come across as authentic?
David (13:07):
I, I think for, for me, you’ve got to, um, accept that, you know, don’t do it blindly. You don’t do it naively when, when someone asks you that, uh, look, you are just being unrealistic here. And, um, you know, you’re being naïve and, uh, you know, the answer to that is I understand there’s a challenge here right now. And you know, me saying that we are gonna, and being really optimistic about the outcome. I’m not doing that through naivety. I’m very consciously doing that because I know that that’s going to get it better outcomes.
I mean, if I look at any situation and, you know, there will be problems, let’s not ignore the problems, but let’s look at well, what would, what would be an outcome, a great outcome if we can solve that problem and how good is that going to be? That’s a conscious decision you can make, is to look at what’s the, uh, potential outcome verse focusing on what the problem is, and you know, how bad the outcome will be if that goes wrong, so I think it’s a conscious decision. And for me personally, I like to just admit and identify that I am gonna look for the op, the opportunity here. And, um, yeah, so I think it is a conscious decision that, um, that you can make.
Sarah (14:20):
That, that works in terms of, um, adversity and, and seeing the best in the situation is that. Is that a similar approach that you can take with failure? So if something doesn’t work out when it could be something in your personal life, it could be something in business that you’ve, you know, you’ve looked for, that the teams worked for, it hasn’t succeeded, it’s, it’s been an outright failure. What other lessons do you take from that? Is it, is it just the same that it’s like, well, we look for the opportunities, or, I mean, how, how do you handle those things personally? Do you get hit by those in, instances of, of failure?
David (14:54):
Yeah. Yeah. Look, I, I, I think a couple of things, I mean, if we’re talking about adversity, um, I heard a really good quote once it’s from Winston Churchill, actually. And, um, and Winston Churchill said that, you know, if you are, if you’re walking through hell, just keep walking. So sometimes when you’re facing real adversity, there’s a, you know, there’s a, there can be a, a tendency to kind of stop and ponder and wallow in, in, uh, in how bad things are. I mean, I’ve always found that, you know, when dealing with adversity, the best thing is to, to do something. So, you know, rather than, than wallow too much in what the problem is, just get up, and there’s always something you can do and just take an action. And then quite often that one action will lead to another action. And, you know, as Winston Churchill said, just keep walking. Before, you know, it you’ve taken that one step has turned into five steps and 10 steps, and you’ve actually started to, you know, get a bit of, um, a bit of momentum in what you’re trying to do.
Sarah (15:57):
Now. The we’ve had a lot of adversity, I mean, worldwide, and, and, um, it doesn’t seem to be improving at the moment. There’s certainly a lot of things that, that can concern us all. On a business front, what, for a small business owner, what do you think are the, are the main challenges for them at the moment?
David (16:15):
Yeah, look, I mean, you know, I guess when you’ve been in business long enough, you, um, you, you, you start to realise that at any point in time, there is always something you could find to point at and say, well, things aren’t going well at the moment because of that. And it’ll be an outside factor, whether it’s the government or the economy or the weather, or the, the, the market that you’re in.
For me, the most important thing to do is to take responsibility for the situation and say that, you know, no matter what’s gonna happen here, I’m gonna be responsible for the outcome. And, and, and the, the benefit of that is that then you are in control, as soon as you, you say that, you know, whatever is happening in my business or in my life at the moment that it’s the, you know, something other than me will be the determiner of, of the outcome you’ve lost control. Right. Whereas when you say that I am in control of the outcome, then you’ve got the, you know, the, the ability to be able to change that. So that then gives you, you know, that, that energy I was talking about to, to go and take that first step, which, you know, leads to a second and a third and a, and a tenth step.
Sarah (17:33):
Now, if we, if we just kind of head back a bit to, towards Domino’s itself and, and talk around the brand a little bit, I mean, it’s become a business that has, um, as, um, Don Meij has famously said, you know, it’s a tech business, and he’s certainly at the, at the sort of group level, certainly driven kind of technology, um, in the business in the last few years. And I wonder how that compares now on a global market with other innovations and fast food and, and where, where the next idea comes from. Where does Domino’s look for the next idea?
David (18:09):
Yeah, look, I I’ve, I’ve heard that quote, um, that, that Domino’s is a technology company, and I’m not sure that Don actually said that he he’s he’s. He said to me that, uh, I’ve been quoted on that a number of times. And, and I dunno that I said, I think he, you know, he said that we invest a lot in technology and it’ll be an important part of our business, but, um…And, and look, there’s no doubt that, you know, we were early innovators on a lot of technology and, um, you know, but that, it, it, it just never stops as always somebody else that’s looking to, you know, whether it’s, uh, an app or a, um, you know, something that, that there’s been a lot of, particularly in the food delivery business, um, there’s been a lot of people that have invested in technology over the last five years so…
Look, we just continue to, to, if we are developing technology, I, I think an important thing is to ask yourself, well, what’s the benefit to the customer in doing this? And if it’s something that’s going to enhance the customer’s experience, then that’s good technology to be investing in. And, and that’s probably a, a question that we always ask ourselves.
Sarah (19:17):
And in terms of Domino’s itself, and it’s kind of position in the market, there was a, an IBISWorld report. Um, last year, I think that estimated the share of market for Domino’s of the pizza market was more than 30 per cent, which is at least 20 per cent more than your, nor your nearest competitor. How has the business reached this? And do you think now that that’s an unassailable position?
David (19:41):
Uh, you broke up a little bit there, Sarah, but I think you said that, uh, Domino’s got to over 30 percent market.
Sarah (19:47):
Ah, that Domino’s, Domino’s has, um, has got 20 per cent estimated to have 20 per cent more market share than the competitors than any one competitor. Um, and I’m just interested in, in your thoughts about how it’s got to that position. Is it just due to technology and innovation, and also, do you think now that, that the brand has an unassailable position in the Australian
David (20:11):
Market? Yeah. Look, it’s an interesting question. Um, I would never say that it’s unassailable because I was here when we were number three and we were a very distant number three and there was another brand that was a very dominant number one. And, uh, and I think at the time that, you know, that that brand probably made the mistake of thinking that we were so small and they were so dominant that, um, whatever we did, you know, that we, we, we couldn’t close that gap.
And, you know, I think the, the thing for us we’ve learned is that even though we now are a dominant number, number one brand, as far as market share goes, that it’s important that we always, you know, behave like a hungry number two. And that means just being fanatical about the customer. So anything we do, we need to make that decision through the lens of is this good for the customer and, uh, will it make it easier for the customer? Does it give them great value? And, you know, we’ve gotta continually be putting that message through the, through the system.
And hopefully, you know, I think you, you mentioned 20,000 in, you know, team members in the business. Well, you know, imagine if 20,000 people made every decision through the customer lens, well, our business will go well and we’ll probably have a large share of customer, um, share if we’re making decisions that are based around the customer and, and everybody in our business needs to be on that same page. Um, if we’re gonna do that.
Sarah (21:44):
And so, um, just to sort of end up, where do you see Domino’s, um, going over the next kind of couple of years, what can we expect to see? Is it, is it more of the same, or will there be new and exciting things happening? Will there be differences in delivery? What, what’s, what’s going to be the hot news.
David (22:05):
Yeah, we think that, um, you know, we, we talk about something called the age of delivery and, um, you know, we, we, we, we kind of knew that that was coming that, um, you know, ’cos people would be looking for convenience certainly as, as life gets busier. Um, you know, particularly in Metro areas, you know, in, in the larger cities, people are looking for convenience and, um, you know, what’s happened in the last, uh, two years is that we’ve, Covid that age of delivery has probably become forward a little bit where people were, you know, we’re forced to be at home.
And I think that the market has understood that you can actually have a really good dining experience at home. You can, you can have the, you know, the comfort of that home that you’ve invested in to create somewhere that you really like to be, that you can have a really good dining experience in the home. So we think that delivery will continue.
Sarah (23:00):
Well, look, David, it’s been really lovely to chat and, uh, thank you for your insights. Um, both personal on business and on Domino’s itself, it’s, it’s been, uh, delight to chat. Thank you.
Sarah (23:16):
Thanks again for listening to Spill the Biz. Don’t forget to subscribe. And if this podcast has spiked your interest in the world of franchising, make sure you check out our website insidefranchisebusiness.com.au for more great info and tips on how to get started.
In Australia Domino’s has achieved a 30 per cent market share, a staggering 20 per cent ahead of its nearest rival.
Does this mean it’s assured of staying the leading brand? We asked David Burness, the CEO of Domino’s Australia and New Zealand, who knows a thing or too about small business, leadership, and pizzas.
He is just six months in to tackling the top job. However David has been one of the longest standing and most successful franchisees in the chain. He bought his first franchise with Domino’s in 1995, after he had been a store manager and operations trainer.
David built up his business to seven stores. Then he sold them to serve as the chief operating officer for the then newly acquired Domino’s, Netherlands business.
Back in Australia, David has again built a seven store business this time centred on the Sunshine Coast. And now he is bringing his experience to bear in the CEO role.
“If you’ve been a successful franchisee and been able to grow your sales, you’ve generally shown that the way you approach the business is through a customer lens. As a business owner, as an entrepreneur, you bring a certain mindset with you and it’s important that that mindset flows through to the top of the business,” he says.
In this podcast David talks about being fanatical about the customer. He talks about the role of leadership and whether business is a mindset. He discusses how important technology is to the Domino’s brand, and what true success looks like to him.
Show notes
David is not the first franchisee to take the top role at Domino’s Australa. Don Meij became a Domino’s franchisee in 1996, building a network of 17 stores. He became CEO in 2002 and in 2005 listed the pizza chain on the Australian Stock Exchange. In 2017, Don Meij celebrated 30 years with the brand.
Domino’s Pizza Enterprise Limited is now the largest master franchise in the world and owns and operates more than 2,400 stores in Australia, New Zealand, Belgium, France, the Netherlands, Japan, Germany, Luxembourg and Denmark.
IBISWorld is a research business that provides industry insights for businesses and organisations across a wide range of sectors globally.